What it means to be a master...(debate)

[Star Shadows]

What it means to be a master (debate)

This is something that has always intrigued me, and on many occasions frustrated me, so I have decided to put it into a thread, for a few reasons; to teach, to learn and to rant. I have been talking to a few new ‘doms’ in the past few months, and some not so new... and there’s something which I noticed that doesn’t quite lie right with me.
I was having conversations along the lines of these...

Me: So, if you don’t know what s/M really is, and have no intention to learn then why are you still trying to do it?
SomeDude: The power, I can make her do what I want.
Me: That it?
SomeDude: Yup.
And...
SomeDifferentDude: Yea but she can’t say no if I tell her to have sex with me!
Me: And that won’t stand up in court if you try it and she piles a rape charge on you
SomeDifferentDude: I could make her not go to the police, what would you know anyway you’re just a sub.

And I know at least one person will have the same attitude to this as ‘SomeDifferentDude’ did, but let me ask you this, who is better to know what you are like than the people witnessing you?

But getting to my point, there are a lot of new doms out there who think that a s/M relationship is just about the dominant participant having total and absolute power over their submissive, and there is nothing else to grasp about the matter... and though I am not saying that power isn’t important I think something that keeps being missed is the fact that it is not the only factor, and it certainly isn’t the most important. This kind of misconception, I believe lead to posts like this one...

Originally Posted by SomeOtherDifferentDude

Let's not forget a proper slaves job is to please the master and if the master wants to see animal sex then I guess he'll see it, provided he has a good slave.
I can't stand it how people will come up with stupid arguments and disagree just because they don't like the kink being talked about.

This post was made in regards to a debate that had started in a thread which suggested bestiality as a punishment. Just because a dom wants to see something, doesn’t mean it is his/her god given right to be able to. Just because a dom may want to see his/her sub throw themselves in front of a bus doesn’t mean that they should be able to. And this is where the flaw comes in the idea that a relationship is solely about undisputed power.

So I guess what I want to reemphasize is the importance of some other vital things

TRUST
HONESTY
RESPECT
RESPONSIBILITY

These I believe are the four fundamental elements of any s/M relationship, which should come before all others... Which would help doms understand than there is a lot of hard work involved it isn’t just a case of click your fingers and get what you want that second, a bit like those who post an ad and want someone with "no limits"... It’s like saying i want a relationship like those that take years to build but i want it now 'cos I’m too lazy to do my part...

Trust... A dom must not only give his/her submissive the grounds to trust him/her, but they must also trust their slaves to WANT to please them, trust that they will in time grow to trust you more. What you have to remember is that this is one of the many

Honesty... How can you expect someone to be honest with you when you are not honest to them also? If you lie to a child are you not teaching them that it is the right thing to do? This is the same principal at large; you have a better chance of your sub/slave being honest with you if you are honest with them. Remain open with them and they will feel more inclined to let you in by choice not just because you tell them to.

Respect... Respect is two sided in all walks of life, school, work, general life you respect someone and they will show you respect in return. The same can be said for in an s/M relationship, if you respect your submissive they are more likely to respect you. To know that you acknowledge that beneath the collars and the tasks the orders and the chains they are human beings just like you just like everyone else makes them more confident in their ability to serve you and more confident in who they are.

Responsibility... Being a dominant, a master, whatever you want to call it, involves a great deal of responsibility. You hold the health and wellbeing, mental, physical and social, in your hands, and for something so important it seems to be forgotten by many people looking to become a dom seem to overlook. You as a dominant have the responsibility to make sure that what your sub is doing is being done safely, and to LISTEN to your sub when they are not sure something is safe, not just force them to do it anyway. For example spending a prolonged amount of time on your back while wearing a ball gag has obvious dangers, remember to risk assess.


I guess what I am saying is sometimes *some* doms get caught up, and are blinded by the power that they hold, yes it isn’t everyone but the point still needs to be made, there is more to a s/M relationship than just power, when it is really about a whole lot more. A relationship in s/M should still be like other relationships outside the bounds of BDSM full of trust, respect, love and honesty not power exploitation and bullying by fear and emotional blackmail like I have seen it evolve to in the past. A relationship made of trust all those good things is sure to be far more fulfilling enjoyable and wholesome than a one based on bullying and power based motives.

[Thank you again to Chloe, who has helped me so much with this thread and many of my others, I’m not sure what I would do without you... sit rocking in a corner most likely]

Feel free to add your own opinion on the matter

[Jaimitovond]

Originally Posted by Star Shadows

SomeDifferentDude: I could make her not go to the police, what would you know anyway you’re just a sub.

Did that seriously happen? "Oh, by the way, you are not allowed to go to the police tell them I raped you or will have to spend 2 weeks without cumming"

Other than that, the only thing I can say is bravo. A real S/M relationship shouldnt be strictly sexual. A master should always be that and a friend for his/her slave, someone they could always count with when passing tough moments and feel safe with

[ohne_id]

This should be a sticky, great post Star Shadows! You're absolutely right with everything you said!

[Anjelen]

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Anjelen. Many of you already know me - and some of you have come to the conclusion that i'm a bastard for pouncing on your threads and stating my opinion. That's fine; just as i am entitled to my opinion of you, you are entitled to your opinion of me.

But - i just happen to have been playing this game for a long time now, and guess what? If i have pounded on your thread it's because i've seen something i don't like, something that may potentially put someone in trouble - and i, personally, would find it rather negligent of myself not to respond and point this out.

Bringing me to the subject of responcibility - and the reason for writing this post in the first place.

Mind you now, the following is all my opinion. Your mileage may vary, but i hope you'll give what i write some thought and maybe, just maybe, glean somethign from it.

You, Dominants; The moment you take control of a submissive, he or she is not just your plaything to unthinkingly do what you want of them. They don't stop thinking, they don't stop feeling, and they certainly don't stop caring about their own safety.

You, however... Wether you like it or not, the moment you begin to play with a submissive, they are your responcibility. What you want of them should come second to their safety, physical as well as mental.

- Hurt, but harm none.
- Nobody, barring nobody has no limits. Respect theirs. period. Only nonabsolute (or, soft) limits can, with time, be bent or perhaps broken. Absolute limits are absolute and should remain so.
- Respect the fact that you are not the only person in their lives. Most submissves will have friends, parents, and or sibblings to think of. So making them write 'Slut' on their foreheads, while degrading, is not a good thing - marks that can be seen by those that should not see them will not have a good effect on their personal life.

On the subject of respect; While you may get off at calling them names, degrading them or for all i care making them piss themselves for your pleasure, keep in mind that they are a person. Respect that person. Submitting to anyone takes the strength to overcome a whole range of ingrown behaviors, from not letting anyone walk all over them down to peeing happens on the potty and nowhere else that last one usually ingrained in them since they were TODDLERS. Submitting takes a personal strength. Respect them for their strength and respect that they are willing to show you that strength. Respect your submissive's surrender, respect your submissive. Period.

Dominance and Submission do not happen without respect and equality. Odd, huh?

Congratulations, you have gotten in touch with a submissive! Their ad appealed to you - or yours to them - and either way, you're talking now. This is a good time to get to know each other - and i don't mean physically. Don't ask a submissive to get naked on camera for you the first time. This only makes you seem impatient - and patience is a virtue, oh young Padawan.

Talk. Discuss. Consider your likes and dislikes, and consider their likes and dislikes. If you and they are compatible, then you'll hit it off. If you two are not compatible, don't be an ass and pretend just as long as it takes for them to take their shit off and twist themselves into knots so you can get off.

Not only will you come off as a complete and total jackass, you'll also ruin their willingness to play with others. A submissive who has gotten this treatment a few times too many will be jaded and just think 'fuck it, good Dominants don't exist' and give up trying.

Don't be a Dumbinant.

Wich reminds me -
Communicate, Communicate, Communicate, Damn it!

'Typin liek this' or LK THS is going to make people think you're a dumbass. Substituting letters for words should be a jailable offence. u asshls got 2 b jokin me - just no. At least make an attempt at writing understandeable english. If you have Dyslexia, let us know - we'll go a little easier on you. A little.

Communication is one of the most important skills a Dominant (or a submissive, at that) can have. Clear and concise communication will make a scene a lot easier; after all, it will make a submissive able to trust you more if they know that they can, for instance, use their safeword to stop ongoing scenes, or at the least tell you that they need you to go easier (or rougher ) on them.

Only the Dumbinant completely disregards what their submissive says, thinks, or does. Respect your submissive's opinions and they are more likely to respect yours.

Dominance and submission - and this, again, is my opinion, yours may be different - should first and foremost be based on equality. Equal trust, equal respect, equal say and equal everything. If you -like- each other, after all, you're more likely to get along and your relationship is more likely to be mutually satisfactory.

Bringing me to mutuality - No. Just because you're the Dominant and they are your submissive, does not mean that they are not entitled to pleasure, in wichever way this happens to come to them.

Being a Dominant doesn't entitle you to be a mysogenistic piece of shit. You aren't any more valuable than a submissive because they happen to be submissive - you aren't 'higher' in any way, nor 'lower'. Nor are you higher or lower because you happen to be of a different gender, or race than they. People are people are people are people, you are no different than they. PERIOD, JACKASS!

Also, just because they happen to serve you, doesn't mean you can dole out punishments at will. Punish when appropriate, how appropriate, and only as much as appropriate. As i've heard from someone, some Dominants for instance punish their submissives when their connection glitches, causing them to be offline for a little while. Guess what, jackass? Unless they're powering their modem with a dynamo and an exersize bike they ride on, they have no control over their connection and should not be punished when it fails, long or short term. This isn't the first time i've heard this.

'You are not allowed to cum for two weeks' is cute - if you've read too much fiction. Especially if you intend to play with your submissive in the mean time, i should point out that too many times edging over the course of days, weeks or god forbid even months can lead to neurosis. No, i'm not kidding you. Forced edging can lead to a goddamned mental disorder if it's kept up too long and done too often - and even if it doesn't it can lead to a point where the submissive can't get off easilly anymore, becomes unsure about getting off in the first place, and through frustrations loses the ability to get off, period.

Punishments should not take long - no longer than neccisary for their message to sink in. The longest punishment i've seen dealt in my twenty two years in the sex buisness lasted no longer than ninety minutes and entailed the submissive standing with their nose against a wall repeating "I will not be thirty minutes late if my Master has told me three times when i need to arrive." - thirty minutes late, versus three times told, equals ninety minutes. Does that make sense to you? because it did to me, and still does.

Control of another - begins with control of oneself. Don't bring anything from outside play into play. If you're pissed - leave it at the door before you start playing with your toys. Remember when you were a kid and someone pissed you off to the point where you threw your legos around the room and you broke the lamp, and then your mom got pissed and smacked you one? Control your impulses. If you can't keep control of yourself, learn the trick of counting to ten before you say something.

There is lots, and lots more where this came from - so stay tuned for further episodes. Right now however i feel i've been rambling and perhaps somewhat less than coherent - so i'll leave it at this and let y'all talk for a while!

[The Natural]

Originally Posted by Anjelen

...

I don't know how to respond to this, he's got this on lock.

The only thing to add for me is...

You were talking to two mentally ill children in chat.

That is all.

[sweetsong]

*applauds*

You already know my thoughts. (:

I found, as a person who makes their living working with children, that submission is best earned with sweetness.

[SlutPuppy]

... Any dom that would rape a sub, then tell them not to tell police should be shot. And also, I love Anjelen's post. So much.

:3 Thank you both Star and Anjelen.


And in my thoughts, this is why I'm not the biggest fan of being in a D/s M/s relationship with someone who is not my boyfriend/girlfriend, but this is just me... You don't have that spark of 'caring' for one another, though I'm sure most M/s relationships do..

Oh, fuck. I'll make a looong rant on this later. I'm bad enough already on the verge of passing out and puking, so I can't even think. :S

[Leopard]

Originally Posted by SlutPuppy

And in my thoughts, this is why I'm not the biggest fan of being in a D/s M/s relationship with someone who is not my boyfriend/girlfriend, but this is just me... You don't have that spark of 'caring' for one another, though I'm sure most M/s relationships do..

I have that spark with my submissive. I love her to bits (which is hopefully returned >.>) without any sort of romantic relationship (actually, she isn't even interested in boys and I'm not interested in... well, anything, romantically.) But despite that I still care deeply enough that I'd be frantic if anything happened to her and take every precaution to make sure that she's always safe under my control.

A little more on topic... It's really great to see how much you've come along and how you're now helping so many people in turn, Shadow. You're doing a great thing here

[Star Shadows]

@Anjelen my eyes actually hurt after reading you post but it has some interesting points in there. Worth the sore eyes.
anyhoo..

Originally Posted by Anjelen

On the subject of respect; While you may get off at calling them names, degrading them or for all i care making them piss themselves for your pleasure, keep in mind that they are a person. Respect that person. Submitting to anyone takes the strength to overcome a whole range of ingrown behaviors, from not letting anyone walk all over them down to peeing happens on the potty and nowhere else that last one usually ingrained in them since they were TODDLERS. Submitting takes a personal strength. Respect them for their strength and respect that they are willing to show you that strength. Respect your submissive's surrender, respect your submissive. Period.

Yea, you're right here, I never thought of it that way though, I guess I knew that that was the case but I never managed to put 2 and 2 together to work out what it was. I know many people who have been called bad submissives for not being able to put these ingrown behaviors aside instantaniously. Because I guess when they are on the other side of the relationship it maybe isnt as obvious, though I must say for all I have had my rant Doms can't be mind readers If you don't tell them somethings wrong it may be difficult for them to pick up on. But yes these ingrown behaviors can be hard to repress and a submissive deserves the respect because they have tried, and managed, and even from trying and failing to repress these behaviors. Just because you dont witness something doesnt mean it doesn't happen, just as you can't see gravity you cant see these behaviors and the fight they cause, doesn't mean that they dont have a huge effect.

Congratulations, you have gotten in touch with a submissive! Their ad appealed to you - or yours to them - and either way, you're talking now. This is a good time to get to know each other - and i don't mean physically. Don't ask a submissive to get naked on camera for you the first time. This only makes you seem impatient - and patience is a virtue, oh young Padawan.

Talk. Discuss. Consider your likes and dislikes, and consider their likes and dislikes. If you and they are compatible, then you'll hit it off. If you two are not compatible, don't be an ass and pretend just as long as it takes for them to take their shit off and twist themselves into knots so you can get off.

Not only will you come off as a complete and total jackass, you'll also ruin their willingness to play with others. A submissive who has gotten this treatment a few times too many will be jaded and just think 'fuck it, good Dominants don't exist' and give up trying.

This is also extremely important trust cannot be built immediately and forcing them onto cam in the instant you start to talk isnt the way to go about building it. Words should be your biggest alie. Use them to develop the foundations for a strong, caring relationship, not just to provoke actions for your own personal gain. I know many people, myself included, who lost faith in dominants for a long time after their dom was a 'jackass', and its hard to break out of that cycle and to go back to trusting people. DO NOT! push beyond what is acceptable and do not make yourself out ot be someting you're not, even if you're a bastard then they know to keep the hell away from you. Otherwise manipulating people to think your way, turning their mind in on itself by faking and having a lack of patience is one of the worst ideas you can try... and I can garuntee you will make backwards progress if you try.

Communication is one of the most important skills a Dominant (or a submissive, at that) can have. Clear and concise communication will make a scene a lot easier; after all, it will make a submissive able to trust you more if they know that they can, for instance, use their safeword to stop ongoing scenes, or at the least tell you that they need you to go easier (or rougher ) on them.

Only the Dumbinant completely disregards what their submissive says, thinks, or does. Respect your submissive's opinions and they are more likely to respect yours.

Communication is key, not just here but in the real world, you don't talk and you don't progress, the relationship doesn't progress. Be open to their opinions and ideas and their responses to what you say. Learn to know your submissives mind and it will strengthen your relationship. Be concise and for christ sakes make sure your sentence MAKES SENSE in coherant English (or used language) before you say/type/send it. There are few things more 'hit your head off a brick wall' irritating than being given an instruction and then not being able to make head or tale of what youre being asked to do. Use a spelling and grammar check and use your logic. Just talk, not everything has to be about the kink and the sexual aspects, and it never should be.

Also, just because they happen to serve you, doesn't mean you can dole out punishments at will. Punish when appropriate, how appropriate, and only as much as appropriate. As i've heard from someone, some Dominants for instance punish their submissives when their connection glitches, causing them to be offline for a little while. Guess what, jackass? Unless they're powering their modem with a dynamo and an exersize bike they ride on, they have no control over their connection and should not be punished when it fails, long or short term. This isn't the first time i've heard this.

Again to realliterate punish only things that deserve punishment, shitty internet cannot be helped, neither can living in a house with other people. Please take these things into consideration. Also, thouhg it may be difficult as Anjelen said make the punishments no longer than required, and try to make it something that they can learn from. Few doms manage to do this but it actually helps, for example I think his sub will have learnt from that punsiment, and even as to writing lines over and over will get the message across but just remember proportionality, an example...

Under one of my doms I had been told expressedly Not to touch by 'area' under any circumastances without his permission, I forgot and did, but still told the truth when asked as to how I did. I was told scratch a hairbrush across my pussy, through my panties, reasonably hard for about a minute. It wasn't a pleasant thing to do but the connection helped me link it back to the action so that I would not do it again.

Make it short, linked together and proportional, only punishing the things that deserve it.

Control of another - begins with control of oneself. Don't bring anything from outside play into play. If you're pissed - leave it at the door before you start playing with your toys. Remember when you were a kid and someone pissed you off to the point where you threw your legos around the room and you broke the lamp, and then your mom got pissed and smacked you one? Control your impulses. If you can't keep control of yourself, learn the trick of counting to ten before you say something

I am glad you said this, because you're spot on. Just because you have had a shit day because of something that happended DOESN'T give you the right to take it out on your sub. Either contain yourself, leave your issues at the door and sort yourself out so you can behave properly and in control of your own emotions, or talk to someone don't let your personal angers get in the way of your relationship when they aren't involved.

Compassion is greatly important and after speaking to so many people and from my own experiences I can say it is the glue in a relationship. If you don't Love each other in one way or another, as a lover, a sibling a friend or just a support system the relationship will not stand the test of time and trouble

And now I am ran out of things to say, so I am goin to find a different post to write on, until I think of more.
And thank you leo, youre like a brother and mentor to me so to hear you singing my praises is amazing thing But I wouldnt be a shadow on who I am now without you.


...and finally again, someone last night asked me if I thouhgt he should read the threads in the s/M forums like this one, and the ones held in threads of note. So I put to you the same response as I told him.

"If you think that you are the perfect dominant then read the thread because there is a strong chance that you're not. If you know that you are flawed then read them to strive for perfection because you are never at a point in your life to stop learning, there will always be something new to learn, and the minute you stop shall be the minute the world as we know it stops, then you can learn about that."

[Ch3rry B0mb]

I figured I'd come in and drop a cherry bomb on this post.
Here goes:

Submitting takes a personal strength. Respect them for their strength and respect that they are willing to show you that strength. Respect your submissive's surrender, respect your submissive. Period.

These are words of gold. Study them, remember them. If you can't, kindly leave your whip at the door.

Don't ask a submissive to get naked on camera for you the first time. This only makes you seem impatient - and patience is a virtue, oh young Padawan.

A red flag should automatically spring up the moment a "Dom" tells you to go on cam during the initial first contact. You -can- say no, ya know. For the longest time, I didn't know. >_>

By the by, padawan? PADAWAN?! Star Wars. -swoons- So sexy. >_<

'Typin liek this' or LK THS is going to make people think you're a dumbass. Substituting letters for words should be a jailable offence. u asshls got 2 b jokin me - just no. At least make an attempt at writing understandeable english. If you have Dyslexia, let us know - we'll go a little easier on you. A little.

No, typing like that -proves- you're a jackass. Red flag, again. At least, for me. Contact me using such verbiage; you're liable to get yourself trolled. And I am oh-so-vicious when I troll.

You aren't any more valuable than a submissive because they happen to be submissive - you aren't 'higher' in any way, nor 'lower'. Nor are you higher or lower because you happen to be of a different gender, or race than they. People are people are people are people, you are no different than they. PERIOD, JACKASS!

More words of gold. Immortalize them in a vat of liquid gold.

Also, just because they happen to serve you, doesn't mean you can dole out punishments at will. Punish when appropriate, how appropriate, and only as much as appropriate. As i've heard from someone, some Dominants for instance punish their submissives when their connection glitches, causing them to be offline for a little while. Guess what, jackass? Unless they're powering their modem with a dynamo and an exersize bike they ride on, they have no control over their connection and should not be punished when it fails, long or short term. This isn't the first time i've heard this.

Unfortunately, this happened to me during my very first experience. I was constantly punished for this. I kinda live in an area that's literally known as "Tornado Alley". During one storm, the National Guard came to my house and evacuated us. When I got to the safe-house, the first thing I did was contact Him to let Him know that I was safe. I was rewarded with a punishment for my efforts. Which...leads me to the next quote.

'You are not allowed to cum for two weeks' is cute - if you've read too much fiction. Especially if you intend to play with your submissive in the mean time, i should point out that too many times edging over the course of days, weeks or god forbid even months can lead to neurosis. No, i'm not kidding you. Forced edging can lead to a goddamned mental disorder if it's kept up too long and done too often - and even if it doesn't it can lead to a point where the submissive can't get off easilly anymore, becomes unsure about getting off in the first place, and through frustrations loses the ability to get off, period.

This is -not- something that's been "made up" just to make this post seem more intelligent. These words are truth. The first relationship I had, the Dom would do this to me...weeks and months of forced edging and orgasm denial so often that when I was rewarded with the ability to have an orgasm...I couldn't. I stopped working, I was broken, and then I was punished for it...with guess what? More forced edging and orgasm denial. I've been reconditioned to the point that I am unable to bring myself over the edge without the assistance of a Dom....literally. And even then, it takes a lot. By the by, please don't fill my inbox with PM's promising to "help me cum"...I will troll you. I promise. =) Happy PMs and words of wisdom and encouragement are always welcome, though. <3

Control of another - begins with control of oneself. Don't bring anything from outside play into play. If you're pissed - leave it at the door before you start playing with your toys. Remember when you were a kid and someone pissed you off to the point where you threw your legos around the room and you broke the lamp, and then your mom got pissed and smacked you one? Control your impulses. If you can't keep control of yourself, learn the trick of counting to ten before you say something.

Worse yet, you could break your toy. ;_; Sometimes those toys can be repaired...sometimes they can't. Still, broken toys = no more fun time for you. And not exactly a happy dance moment for the toy.

<3
Cherry

[spiritualxtc]

http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=43379

These are my thoughts on the matter. I figured I should just link to it rather than copy and paste it in this thread, although if it's rude to link to another thread inside of one thread, I don't know the customs here, I'd be more than willing to paste it in here.

I've read just about every post here and I agree with just about everything said. It's just amazing to have a community, or at least the vast majority of this community, that understands what it's all really about. Upstart Dom's, which is what I classify the kind of Dom's that StarShadow was talking with, are a true irritation. They smear the idea of M/s and make it into something it's not. They also have a tendency to ruin a perfectly good, budding slave and scar them for life.

I'd like to have them sub for one another and see how that goes.

[edd18]

I live in the world of online d/s and i feel this is the arena where a dom gets tested the most. Firstly you have the inital period where you gain the subs trust. The trouble with cyber space is obviously the sub can just disapear if he or she wants, so the dom has to balence what he wants with what his sub wants, as to not bore her. However after a while u build up a realtionship, and from experience as a sub you feel a bond to your master, you dont want to disapoint them or let them down, for me this is the point where the master really is a master, there comes a point where the master can controll the sub to do anything, for me this is what i long for in a realationship.

Of course this can happen short term by using blackmail or similar techinques, but this leads to a different realtionship, with more aggresive master which i prefer but I question if this is really a proper d/s relationship?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Leopard

A little more on topic... It's really great to see how much you've come along and how you're now helping so many people in turn, Shadow. You're doing a great thing here

I dont think I can add too much to this debate even while I didnt read the whole document. But I can see the guys who posted here - Star, Anjelen and Leo - I know all of you have loads of respect to people.

Also I would like to add I totally second Leo's post.

Originally Posted by spiritualxtc

Upstart Dom's, which is what I classify the kind of Dom's that StarShadow was talking with, are a true irritation. They smear the idea of M/s and make it into something it's not. They also have a tendency to ruin a perfectly good, budding slave and scar them for life.

I'd like to have them sub for one another and see how that goes.

True, very true. That is the biggest problem here, the possibility to scar someone.
That is why I think GetDare as a site can do a bit more to prevent this. I'm not just saying something should happen, I want to make posts in that area too.

Originally Posted by edd18

Firstly you have the inital period where you gain the subs trust. The trouble with cyber space is obviously the sub can just disapear if he or she wants, so the dom has to balence what he wants with what his sub wants, as to not bore her.

Yes but shouldnt you interpret the sub disappearing is he want as a huge sign that something is wrong? Or are you saying that you can bore him in the real world?
I feel that the statement that the sub can disappear completely negates your statement that you want to gain their trust.

[Leopard]

Originally Posted by edd18

Of course this can happen short term by using blackmail or similar techinques, but this leads to a different realtionship, with more aggresive master which i prefer but I question if this is really a proper d/s relationship?

I know a lot of people will cry out "no!" but really I don't believe there's any such thing as a "proper d/s relationship." Sure there are all sorts of made up scene definitions of how things should be, but that's all they are: made up.

To me a d/s relationship means that there is a visible balance of power; the dominant being in charge, the submissive ... submitting. (That doesn't make one better than the other; I see them as equal.) The only "should be"s in the relationship are that it is safe and consensual.

[Anjelen]

Originally Posted by Leopard

I know a lot of people will cry out "no!" but really I don't believe there's any such thing as a "proper d/s relationship." Sure there are all sorts of made up scene definitions of how things should be, but that's all they are: made up.

To me a d/s relationship means that there is a visible balance of power; the dominant being in charge, the submissive ... submitting. (That doesn't make one better than the other; I see them as equal.) The only "should be"s in the relationship are that it is safe and consensual.

There is no such thing as the 'One True Way' of D/s - this is true. However the general consensus seems to be that noone should be in any way harmed by participating, wether then, now, or in the future.

Blackmail, therefore is an iffy subject to me; who's to say the blackmail will stop once the submissive decides they nolonger want that particular form of dynamic? I would therefore recommend only entering a blackmail-based dynamic with someone whom you know you can fully and completely trust.

The visible balance of power in the D/s relationship is usually present by simple cues; ranging from the submissive kneeling aside their Dominant's seat or wearing their collar and leash, referring to their Dominant as "Master", "Sir" or, in my arrogant opinion towards the somewhat rediculous, "Sire" or "God".
(This goes for "Mistress" "Ma'am" "Queen" and "Goddess", too. )

Or, such subtleties as the submissive ensuring their Dominant lacks nothing, from regular, 'Can i get you anything?' to nudging that ashtray that's a little far away, a touch closer so that the Dominant has an easier reach.

(This can get hilareous in club settings where multiple Dominants share a (round) table and a single ashtray. It's like watching a table hockey game... )

Safe, Sane and Consensual (or Risk Aware Consensual Kink, if that's your thing) is a no-brainer. Any Dominant who doesn't immediately recognise "SS&C" or "RACK" should, in my opinion, raise a red flag in their peers.