Punishing a slave for no reason

[Yerst]

Originally Posted by J.M.N

However taking a bad mood out on a sub is a different question, I don't believe they should. Whilst a sub is there to please their master I don't think it's very justifiable to being harsh with no reason.

Spot on. Taking out your bad mood on a sub will only hurt them emotionally. They're not a punching bag. Unless, of course, that is the relationship you have with them.

[The Game Master]

I would say no, if there is no reason for the punishment then it causes confusion and violates trust. Of course this is also a matter of opinion I think, some dominants and subs wouldn't mind or enjoy this I suppose. I personally would not punish a sub for no reason.

[DarlingNihilist]

I personally have always drawn a line between discipline and punishment and make it very clear to all of my slaves the distinction between the two before they ever enter into a contract with me. If they have done something wrong, it's punishment; these are non-negotiable orders and often quite severe. If I wish to administer discipline it's for my own amusement and I give them the option to accept it or not. This isn't the trick it might seem to be: I always explain that the only thing that will happen if they choose not to is that I will be disappointed. I've never had a slave refuse discipline.

[Komodo Jones]

I've kind of talked about this my thoughts on discipline blog entry so I won't go into too much detail and at the same time I'm not going to read what everyone says so I may repeat some stuff. To answer your question directly though; yes I do think it is ok to have a slave do something unpleasant just because you feel like it...as long as you do this sparingly. My philosophy in D/s relationships is that both the dominant and submissive should be enjoying the roles that they have chosen to fulfill. If you are going to make the slave do things that they don't enjoy you're probably trying to mold them but you probably will end up driving them off in the end. And as some people have said on this thread if you're using something unpleasant as a punishment, I feel that this should be justified for a good reason. Like you can't tell someone to go into the middle of a mall and strip just because they said u instead of actually spelling out the word you. Well you can but I would consider you an extremist. But punishments in my opinion are there to teach you sub how to act and in turn make the best sub they can be. That's just my own two cents on the issue though.

[Frost Grey]

Ok so the theroy behind that is pretty simple: Punishing a slave for no reason recertifies two things:

The first being that as a slave, their owner needs no reason to punish them because they are, infact, a slave.

The second is because reminding them of the fact they are a slave and CAN be punished for no reason goads them to strive to please and thus not require to be punished.

It can be a harsh way to look at it. But some Masters find it quite effective to give their slaves a flogging occasionally to keep their slave on their toes. And to not become complacent.

[AbusiveMaster]

Why is doing something "unpleasant" the same as a punishment?

In my experience, the majority of submissives I met have a level of insecurity about them, coupled with a desire to be pleasing. If the sub feels they have let their Dom down, the guilt can be really rather nasty, and hurtful to the submissive. I personally feel that "inventing" bad behaviour in order to have a reason to be sadistic is emotional cruelty.

If I want to be a sadist, then I am a sadist. I dont use blackmail, psychological torture or making my sub feel unworthy in order to justify this, I just do it because we have already agreed this is my right.

[SlutPuppy]

Doing things that are unpleasant or that I don't particularly enjoy (but don't break my limits) just for his entertainment or amusement is perfectly fine with me. Though I will probably ask why he's wanting me to do it, and it's his choice to tell me or not... I don't consider that punishment.

Being punished for no reason, however, does not sit well with me. Punishment is both a mental and usually physical thing for me, and I hate it, it sucks. I'm lucky that I haven't been punished very often, mostly because I try to be good and follow rules/whats expected of me as much as possible.

[badwhore]

I think, as a slave, a master should be able to punish a slave for no reason as the slave should be expected to please its master no matter what.

[Star Shadows]

In my opinion, as a former Submissive, I believe that a Dom should not punish a submissive simply "because he feels like it" I believe there is a duty attached to their role, and in my opnion that involves a degree of appropriateness in their actions, ie using punishments as punishments.

Giving them a task for their own entertainment is fine, but a punishment without a cause logistically stops it being a punishment at all (likewise I dont understand subs who want punishments, or only do punishments within their likes).

I really do agree with J.M.N and having had a "master" who would take his bad mood out on me I cannot agree enough with the last part of his post. Leave your shit at the door. I was often punished for his bad day at work and while I didnt understand it then, theres no excuse for behaving like that where you have a duty of care.

Originally Posted by J.M.N

In my opinion

I don't believe that a dom can "punish" a slave for no reason. I consider the definition of punishing as something like to subject to a penalty for an offense, sin, or fault. Therefore they can't punish a slave for no reason.

However taking a bad mood out on a sub is a different question, I don't believe they should. Whilst a sub is there to please their master I don't think it's very justifiable to being harsh with no reason.

That being said as has been mentioned across the thread, it depends on the dynamic of the relationship and of those involved. As long as its something that has been discussed, and agreed to then it really is just a matter of personal preference, linguistics.

Originally Posted by AbusiveMaster

Why is doing something "unpleasant" the same as a punishment?

In my experience, the majority of submissives I met have a level of insecurity about them, coupled with a desire to be pleasing. If the sub feels they have let their Dom down, the guilt can be really rather nasty, and hurtful to the submissive. I personally feel that "inventing" bad behaviour in order to have a reason to be sadistic is emotional cruelty.

If I want to be a sadist, then I am a sadist. I dont use blackmail, psychological torture or making my sub feel unworthy in order to justify this, I just do it because we have already agreed this is my right.

Originally Posted by SlutPuppy

Doing things that are unpleasant or that I don't particularly enjoy (but don't break my limits) just for his entertainment or amusement is perfectly fine with me. Though I will probably ask why he's wanting me to do it, and it's his choice to tell me or not... I don't consider that punishment.

Being punished for no reason, however, does not sit well with me. Punishment is both a mental and usually physical thing for me, and I hate it, it sucks. I'm lucky that I haven't been punished very often, mostly because I try to be good and follow rules/whats expected of me as much as possible.

I think a lot of the "masters" or "doms" who do feel punishing without reason is acceptable should consider Abusive Master's and the latter part of SlutPuppys post very carefully. There in a lot of (not all) submissives a punishment is equally a mental thing to what it is physical, that feeling of knowing you must have done something to displease your master/ dom to have been punished and its often the worst part for a submissive, the punishment often ending long before that feeling goes away. Inflicting that feeling attached with punishment, without the submissive having done anything to warrent a punishment simply because a top feels like it is worrying at least.

[Shibari]

Yes and no, depends on punishment. After time as passed with no punishments then maybe a little reminder of there place is due. But as i say it depends, some slaves love love love getting punished, i for one dont 100% like it, as my punishments are for purpose only, meaning i have done something/broke a rule to recieve a lesson, (most of the time due to obedience and profanity from time to time) at the end of the punishment i find myself very sorry indeed! So as a whole I think it just depends on the relationship

[Sharp Shooter]

As with so much in life, just because you can does not mean you should, nor does it make it right.

That the dominant may consider something well within his/her capabilities or powers doesn't mean the submissive will either understand or even rationalize to be acceptable. If the submissive feels that something has crossed the line from "scene" to "abuse", the relationship between the dominant and the submissive is beginning to fracture. Better communication is needed with respect for what each brings into the relationship.

Personally, I would never even treat my dog that way so why would I even consider that for a sub or slave? Just not going to happen. If I need to resort to that to assert my dominance, I have no business being dominant.

[Happy Me]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

Personally, I would never even treat my dog that way so why would I even consider that for a sub or slave? Just not going to happen. If I need to resort to that to assert my dominance, I have no business being dominant.

I have a feeling that most of the people who would do this to their sub, would also do it to their dog.

[iSpuds]

As mentioned before, there is a difference between "doing something unpleasant," and "punishing."

Punishment, for me, might be as simple as telling my pet that I'm disappointed in him - and that is something I absolutely do not enjoy. To punish my pet means that he's done something severely wrong. If he's done something wrong, then there's something I did not teach him well enough. That he would need a punishment reflects poorly on both of our actions. I can't imagine why I would ever want to punish my pet "just because."

On the other hand, while it's not really my thing, I can understand reasons why a Dom might want to have their sub do unpleasant things "just because," especially if that's their kink. However, seeing my pet in purely uncomfortable situations for no reason and with no pleasure to be derived from it is not my kink.

[2bchew]

Originally Posted by SlutPuppy

Doing things that are unpleasant or that I don't particularly enjoy (but don't break my limits) just for his entertainment or amusement is perfectly fine with me. Though I will probably ask why he's wanting me to do it, and it's his choice to tell me or not... I don't consider that punishment.

Being punished for no reason, however, does not sit well with me. Punishment is both a mental and usually physical thing for me, and I hate it, it sucks. I'm lucky that I haven't been punished very often, mostly because I try to be good and follow rules/whats expected of me as much as possible.

To me this 1 was one of the best answers.A very big part of punishment is the mental.You are being punished for disobeying or letting down your Master.Doing something unpleasent or a task of some sort is completly the opposite as by doing the task you are pleasing your Master.

[lola.fox]

Originally Posted by Happyme127

I have a feeling that most of the people who would do this to their sub, would also do it to their dog.

aw that's such a sad and disturbing thought

Originally Posted by SlutPuppy

Doing things that are unpleasant or that I don't particularly enjoy (but don't break my limits) just for his entertainment or amusement is perfectly fine with me. Though I will probably ask why he's wanting me to do it, and it's his choice to tell me or not... I don't consider that punishment.

Being punished for no reason, however, does not sit well with me. Punishment is both a mental and usually physical thing for me, and I hate it, it sucks. I'm lucky that I haven't been punished very often, mostly because I try to be good and follow rules/whats expected of me as much as possible.

and i totally agree with you plut! i don't deal well with disappointment at all.