Ask about Islam

[Pingu]

I appreciate this is a very random thread but it follows on from MBP's "Ground Zero" blog. A lot of times when I meet new people, I get asked questions about Islam and stuff that people don't know about.

I am not going to preach anything, simply answer any questions that you have. You can either post below or PM me and I'll answer.

(I understand this is a bit of a risque thread, if you have genuine questions then please feel free to ask. If you wish to bash Islam or any other religion in this thread then please go elsewhere.

[12356416514a]

The islam allows man to slap the shit out of their wives, why would anyone believe that this god is a good god? The islam also wants it's followers to kill all the people that don't believe in allah.

[gobbleflogera]

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.
A lot of the worlds conflicts are based on religious beliefs, and that is pretty poor, considering we now live in a technologically advanced world.

[switchee]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

I know what you've said about how Muslims are supposed to respect Christians and Jews, but today's reality does not bear that out. Of course, more than half (hopefully significantly more) of the Muslim faith are not hostile and it's hatred fanned by an extremist minority, but that relies on the Muslim community to police itself. Since Muslims are typically passive (vs aggressive), that passivity lets them avert their eyes to how Islam is practiced by extremists.

I point your to this headline today as an example of the problem. And before you ask, I have met Christians who were forced to flee their homelands in the Middle East for fear of being killed by the Muslim majority.

With all due respect, I don't think that Fox News is the most reliable source of information regarding this topic. They are notorious for their hatemongering.

Also, Muslims are far from alone when it comes to disrespecting those of other religions. Christians, Hindus, Jews and even the supposedly peace-loving Buddhists all have their share of bigots/separatists/whatever.

Originally Posted by gobbleflogera

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.

I agree. Religion's main purpose is to create "order" according to how those within its ranks define it. They are archaic and patriarchal.

They do, however, create a sense of security and/or purpose for many people, so they do have their uses. It's a shame that one of those uses has been as a justification for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people over the last two thousand years or so.

[Sharp Shooter]

Originally Posted by switchee

With all due respect, I don't think that Fox News is the most reliable source of information regarding this topic. They are notorious for their hatemongering.

Go to Google. Do a search with these three words: [Christians persecute Muslims] and look at the results. Now swap the order to [Muslims persecute Christians] and look at the results again. Pretty much identical and it is heavily leaning to links about Muslims persecuting Christians, predominantly in the Middle East countries of Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria.

Paint it however you want but if you want to die a gruesome death or rot in a prison, be a Muslim who converts to Christianity in the Middle East. By contrast, you could live in Rome and convert to Islam without gaining a death sentence.

This doesn't tell me that Islam is a militant religion. What it does tell me is that a very high profile segment of those who claim to be Muslim believe it is their religious duty to enforce what they believe is the will of Allah. How many are there? Enough to grab headlines but doubtful that they even number a tenth of practicing Muslims. ***

My problem is when the "90%" do too little to stop the known troublemaking faction BEFORE a tragedy is borne. Why is it so necessary for law enforcement and government intelligence to infiltrate a mosque to discover plots before they hatch? If that vast majority of Muslims did more to police their own members, there would be far fewer religious persecutions, murders, acid-assaults, and bombings.

And to preempt, of course Muslims are not the only ones worldwide who commit crimes. But this thread was started to clear up and educate about Islam and its followers. So the topic is Muslims, not everyone else. Please stay on your own topic and not try to toss it off on "the problem is everywhere" because well, it isn't.

The last item is my suggestion to not show your own prejudice too soon. To attack a news source without proof that the story they publish is actually false is a bad tactic. When you look at the Google results, at least eight pages of them, you will find Reuters, the London Telegraph, and a lot more as sources of stories about Muslim persecution of Christians. Because a story is on Fox does NOT make it false or inflammatory by default. In fact, I've seen numerous major stories that broke first on Fox before other mainstream "news" had the balls to cover the story. "Fast and Furious", the ACORN fiasco and the serial murderer Dr. Kermit Gosnell infanticides are all examples. And because you don't like or appreciate the tone of a news story does not qualify a news outlet as "hate mongering", only that you don't like how they present the news.

*** to Pingu: My numbers are simply to illustrate my belief that it is an extreme minority who are the thorn in Islam's side, so to speak. Please accept my exaggeration with no offense intended. Numbers simply help to show "the good guys vastly outnumber the bad guys."

[switchee]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

The last item is my suggestion to not show your own prejudice too soon. To attack a news source without proof that the story they publish is actually false is a bad tactic. When you look at the Google results, at least eight pages of them, you will find Reuters, the London Telegraph, and a lot more as sources of stories about Muslim persecution of Christians. Because a story is on Fox does NOT make it false or inflammatory by default. In fact, I've seen numerous major stories that broke first on Fox before other mainstream "news" had the balls to cover the story. "Fast and Furious", the ACORN fiasco and the serial murderer Dr. Kermit Gosnell infanticides are all examples. And because you don't like or appreciate the tone of a news story does not qualify a news outlet as "hate mongering", only that you don't like how they present the news.

You're hijacking the thread with your argument regarding Fox News. You are more than welcome to sanctify them. I really don't care.

My point was that you need more than one right-wing news outlet to justify a blanket criticism of an entire religion, be it Islam or any other.

[Dareholic]

To what I have read, I would never be able to convert to Islam; because I practice Bi-sexuality. However, it is hard to find a GOOD source on Islam, expecially where I live. The internet is not any better either. Now am I forever a lost soul, damned for the rest of entirety in the after life because I practice Bi-sexuality, which is what make me happy.?

[Pingu]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

Go to Google. Do a search with these three words: [Christians persecute Muslims] and look at the results. Now swap the order to [Muslims persecute Christians] and look at the results again. Pretty much identical and it is heavily leaning to links about Muslims persecuting Christians, predominantly in the Middle East countries of Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria.

It depends on how you define persecution. Try being a Muslim in Chechyna or a Muslim in the Balkans 20 years ago. Bear in mind that you live in the West where the press will obviously report persecution of Christianity more heavily than the other way around. Likewise, if you are living in the West then persecution of Muslims will hold more weight.

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

Paint it however you want but if you want to die a gruesome death or rot in a prison, be a Muslim who converts to Christianity in the Middle East. By contrast, you could live in Rome and convert to Islam without gaining a death sentence.

Whilst I won't deny that may happen in certain circumstances, it is inaccurate to say that this is widespread and in every single country and every single case. A lot of the top schools in Pakistan are Christianity based because they receive better private funding. A lot of Muslim children are sent abroad to American and UK schools which have their roots in Christianity. These people do not return to their country and become persecuted.

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

My problem is when the "90%" do too little to stop the known troublemaking faction BEFORE a tragedy is borne. Why is it so necessary for law enforcement and government intelligence to infiltrate a mosque to discover plots before they hatch? If that vast majority of Muslims did more to police their own members, there would be far fewer religious persecutions, murders, acid-assaults, and bombings.

Are you in law enforcement? How do you know people have not reported groups who are planning attacks. Again, bear in mind that the cells who are planning attacks are not going to around advertising that the are about to bomb somewhere.

As you said in your previous paragraph, 99.9 of Muslims are in no way linked to extremists so why should they blamed for inaction when it is almost impossible to stop it.

Using your logic - why was there inaction amongst the community for events such as a bomb at a mosque, an arson attack a mosque and even an arson attack a school.

How much press have those three incidents gotten? Imagine if the bomb was at a church.

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

And to preempt, of course Muslims are not the only ones worldwide who commit crimes. But this thread was started to clear up and educate about Islam and its followers. So the topic is Muslims, not everyone else. Please stay on your own topic and not try to toss it off on "the problem is everywhere" because well, it isn't.

You are saying that the problem only lies with Islam when there is more than enough proof that this occurs around the world regardless of religion. In order to argue against your opinion, of course other religions will need to be brought into it to provide context.

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

The last item is my suggestion to not show your own prejudice too soon. To attack a news source without proof that the story they publish is actually false is a bad tactic.

Firstly, the Vatican has refused to comment on what that particular spokesman has said. Furthermore, the organisations that they have used for comment in the article are all pro-Christian groups. The only non-biased group they got a quote from said:

"Dinah Pokempner, general counsel for Human Rights Watch, was not able to independently verify the Vatican's figure, but said, "I think there’s little doubt that every week, every day, someone in the world is being persecuted – even to the point of losing their life – based on their religion."

"Persecution is a daily event on the basis of religion," Pokempner said. "This persecution affects Christians just as it does Muslims, Jews, Bahá'ís and people of other faiths.""

The problem is not associated solely with Islam and it would be incredibly naive to think so.

[Sharp Shooter]

Originally Posted by Pingu

It depends on how you define persecution. Try being a Muslim in Chechyna or a Muslim in the Balkans 20 years ago. Bear in mind that you live in the West where the press will obviously report persecution of Christianity more heavily than the other way around. Likewise, if you are living in the West then persecution of Muslims will hold more weight.

I usually define words by their common use in the dictionary. Try it sometime. Although it does make slanting stories more difficult.

Originally Posted by Pingu

Whilst I won't deny that may happen in certain circumstances, it is inaccurate to say that this is widespread and in every single country and every single case. A lot of the top schools in Pakistan are Christianity based because they receive better private funding. A lot of Muslim children are sent abroad to American and UK schools which have their roots in Christianity. These people do not return to their country and become persecuted.

Good thing I never said that it was widespread and in every single country and every single case. A common trick, as you used here, is to manufacture a far more extreme set of criteria than originally used, then to denounce that "suddenly extreme" statement as being false. All the while, the original statement is forgotten. You don't score by distorting and avoiding a direct answer to a simple statement.

Originally Posted by Pingu

Are you in law enforcement? How do you know people have not reported groups who are planning attacks. Again, bear in mind that the cells who are planning attacks are not going to around advertising that the are about to bomb somewhere.

As you said in your previous paragraph, 99.9 of Muslims are in no way linked to extremists so why should they blamed for inaction when it is almost impossible to stop it.

The mainstream practice of Islam teaches passivity. Not aggression. The extremists have perverted the practice of Islam to an aggressive, violent strain that we all agree is NOT consistent with the mainstream practice of Islam. So to move along, my statement referred to the vast majority claiming to "not have a clue" about a vocal, extremist view that sticks out like a sore thumb. Yes, those radicals are ejected from the mosques. And then the majority of Muslims simply turn their backs and pretend the extremists did not exist. They normally do NOT tell law enforcement or otherwise act to protect non-Muslims who will likely be victims of those extremists. THAT is my criticism. And NO, I am not law enforcement or military. But I can send a few black helicopters over your home at night if you like.

Originally Posted by Pingu

Using your logic - why was there inaction amongst the community for events such as a bomb at a mosque, an arson attack a mosque and even an arson attack a school.

How much press have those three incidents gotten? Imagine if the bomb was at a church.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but you are in the UK, not Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, etc. England is a predominantly CHRISTIAN land. If you want moral outrage, go to the Middle East, the homeland of Islam. And the police in the first item you noted already arrested a 75-year-old loner. The other two are so recent to the reports that you need to trust in your HOST country's law enforcement to do it's job. You are not in Syria or Iraq or Egypt. If you feel those countries have superior results, I would comment to "not let the door hit you in the butt on your way out."

Originally Posted by Pingu

You are saying that the problem only lies with Islam when there is more than enough proof that this occurs around the world regardless of religion. In order to argue against your opinion, of course other religions will need to be brought into it to provide context.

No, I never said that. AGAIN! I simply pointed out the PREDOMINANCE of it happening with your chosen religion of this topic, than with any other majority religion. YOU picked to promote Islam. That is your prerogative. I simply pointed out how Islam has significant skeletons in its closet. Since I did not promote any other religion as superior or fault-free, you cannot deflect what I said into "everyone else is doing it too so it's not my fault."

Originally Posted by Pingu

Firstly, the Vatican has refused to comment on what that particular spokesman has said. Furthermore, the organisations that they have used for comment in the article are all pro-Christian groups. The only non-biased group they got a quote from said:

"Dinah Pokempner, general counsel for Human Rights Watch, was not able to independently verify the Vatican's figure, but said, "I think there’s little doubt that every week, every day, someone in the world is being persecuted – even to the point of losing their life – based on their religion."

"Persecution is a daily event on the basis of religion," Pokempner said. "This persecution affects Christians just as it does Muslims, Jews, Bahá'ís and people of other faiths.""

The problem is not associated solely with Islam and it would be incredibly naive to think so.

Your argument that because a source is not "unbiased" must mean that the source's information is wrong is horrendously invalid. You have NOT proven that the information is flawed, and by whose definition of "unbiased" are we to go, yours? Mine? Neither your opinion nor mine about ANY source will make its information any more or less factual. I suggest that you work on the factual basis of an article to decide its validity and not on whether that source meets your personal approval.

[Pingu]

Originally Posted by gobbleflogera

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.
A lot of the worlds conflicts are based on religious beliefs, and that is pretty poor, considering we now live in a technologically advanced world.

If you took religion away, conflicts would exist over land. Religion happens to be nice scapegoat. Lest we forget WW1 and WW2.

[switchee]

I think that some of the perceptions of Muslims are based around the justice systems of a number of Islamic nations.

By that I mean things like public executions, spontaneous stonings and the like.

Personally, I think these things are quite distinct from Islam, in that they are a combination of mob mentality and a poorly educated populace. History has shown that this combination will produce violence regardless of race or creed.

[Switch347]

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.


That's simply not true

While some religions may be made for this this reason if you believe S I do in Christianity then u know that the only way to get to heaven is faith not by works

Ephesians 2:8

[Kitten]

What does the Qur'an say about anal sex?
Is that alright for muslims, or no? And why?

[Pingu]

It is not allowed as Islam forbids homosexuality and this was associated with it.

[Pingu]

Bit bored so I thought I would bump this for anyone bored and curious.