Ask about Islam

[Pingu]

Originally Posted by Dareholic

I thought I read somewhere the Muslims usually view "the Qur'an" as the original scripture as revealed in Arabic and that any translations are necessarily deficient. I was just curious as to why a religon would not allow it to be tranlated into another languege, if it where not hinding anything? Now I understand certain words do not translate into english very good, but that happens with almost any translation into any language on the planet. Or are they just really strict in the way they read "the Qur'an", which does not allow said translation. Or am I just reading to much into it?

It can be translated into other languages however the original was in Arabic and should be read that way. The problem when translating into other languages is that people attach different meanings and the true meaning is diluted. There is no conspiracy theory.

[phanmail]

I've always wondered what the deal was with continuing revelations from Allah isn't there a denomination of Islam that believes there is more information to come?

[Pingu]

The Declaration of Faith for Islam is that there is only one God and Prophet Muhammad is the last Messenger so if there are any sects within Islam who believe there are more revelations to come then they don't really fit into the religion.

[Sharp Shooter]

I know what you've said about how Muslims are supposed to respect Christians and Jews, but today's reality does not bear that out. Of course, more than half (hopefully significantly more) of the Muslim faith are not hostile and it's hatred fanned by an extremist minority, but that relies on the Muslim community to police itself. Since Muslims are typically passive (vs aggressive), that passivity lets them avert their eyes to how Islam is practiced by extremists.

I point your to this headline today as an example of the problem. And before you ask, I have met Christians who were forced to flee their homelands in the Middle East for fear of being killed by the Muslim majority.

[gobbleflogera]

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.
A lot of the worlds conflicts are based on religious beliefs, and that is pretty poor, considering we now live in a technologically advanced world.

[Master.G]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

I point your to this headline today as an example of the problem. And before you ask, I have met Christians who were forced to flee their homelands in the Middle East for fear of being killed by the Muslim majority.

I looked through this article, but honestly haven't read all of it. Well, what you said is true, extremists kind of have a larger influence in Middle East, mostly on illiterates. Being from Egypt, I can say that there are lots and lots of campaigns against extremists, especially on how they look at Christians. However, you should also bear in mind that there is an extreme security crisis in the country since 2011, due to a revolution. Lots of people gets killed in fight, if both ends of fights were muslims or christians then there is no media discussion. However, when there is a muslim end and a christian end they just talk about it as if it is another story, where it is just a fight like any other (well, to be honest that is mostly). Sometimes though, some extremists try to like burn a church or something and almost always moderate muslims go defend the church.
As for Syria, I think that is just an extreme exaggeration ... Well they have been in a revolution since march 2011, 100 000 people were recorded killed by regime, and I believe they are talking about killing civilians by regime. The regime actually don't differentiate between a muslim, christian, women, old persons, nor children ... They just kill

Sorry for a long reply, I do admit there is a problem in this matter, but I see the news exaggerating the matter that's all.

[switchee]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

I know what you've said about how Muslims are supposed to respect Christians and Jews, but today's reality does not bear that out. Of course, more than half (hopefully significantly more) of the Muslim faith are not hostile and it's hatred fanned by an extremist minority, but that relies on the Muslim community to police itself. Since Muslims are typically passive (vs aggressive), that passivity lets them avert their eyes to how Islam is practiced by extremists.

I point your to this headline today as an example of the problem. And before you ask, I have met Christians who were forced to flee their homelands in the Middle East for fear of being killed by the Muslim majority.

With all due respect, I don't think that Fox News is the most reliable source of information regarding this topic. They are notorious for their hatemongering.

Also, Muslims are far from alone when it comes to disrespecting those of other religions. Christians, Hindus, Jews and even the supposedly peace-loving Buddhists all have their share of bigots/separatists/whatever.

Originally Posted by gobbleflogera

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.

I agree. Religion's main purpose is to create "order" according to how those within its ranks define it. They are archaic and patriarchal.

They do, however, create a sense of security and/or purpose for many people, so they do have their uses. It's a shame that one of those uses has been as a justification for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people over the last two thousand years or so.

[Pingu]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

I know what you've said about how Muslims are supposed to respect Christians and Jews, but today's reality does not bear that out. Of course, more than half (hopefully significantly more) of the Muslim faith are not hostile and it's hatred fanned by an extremist minority, but that relies on the Muslim community to police itself. Since Muslims are typically passive (vs aggressive), that passivity lets them avert their eyes to how Islam is practiced by extremists.

You need to be clear on your figures. On the one had you appear to be saying that half of the Muslim community are hostile (possibly less) but on the other hand, you say is is a minority.

There are 2 billion Muslims in the world and if anywhere near the numbers you have suggested were hostile then there would be thousands of deaths every single day through the direct actions of Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims are not hostile or extremists in any way shape or form. Muslims condemn violence against others and I would disagree with your comment in general that Muslims are passive. In the aftermath of the Woolwich attacks, a number of Muslim groups condemned the attacks. The perpetrators were banned from Woolwich mosques. I understand the same can said for the Boston bombers.

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

I point your to this headline today as an example of the problem. And before you ask, I have met Christians who were forced to flee their homelands in the Middle East for fear of being killed by the Muslim majority.

Firstly, the Vatican has refused to comment on what that particular spokesman has said. Furthermore, the organisations that they have used for comment in the article are all pro-Christian groups. The only non-biased group they got a quote from said:

"Dinah Pokempner, general counsel for Human Rights Watch, was not able to independently verify the Vatican's figure, but said, "I think there’s little doubt that every week, every day, someone in the world is being persecuted – even to the point of losing their life – based on their religion."

"Persecution is a daily event on the basis of religion," Pokempner said. "This persecution affects Christians just as it does Muslims, Jews, Bahá'ís and people of other faiths.""

The problem is not associated solely with Islam and it would be incredibly naive to think so.

[Pingu]

Originally Posted by gobbleflogera

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.
A lot of the worlds conflicts are based on religious beliefs, and that is pretty poor, considering we now live in a technologically advanced world.

If you took religion away, conflicts would exist over land. Religion happens to be nice scapegoat. Lest we forget WW1 and WW2.

[switchee]

I think that some of the perceptions of Muslims are based around the justice systems of a number of Islamic nations.

By that I mean things like public executions, spontaneous stonings and the like.

Personally, I think these things are quite distinct from Islam, in that they are a combination of mob mentality and a poorly educated populace. History has shown that this combination will produce violence regardless of race or creed.

[Switch347]

Religion, in its many and diverse forms, is an invention of man. The main purpose of any religion is to control the masses. A recurring theme in all religions, is that you will never get to 'heaven' if you do not follow the rules of said religion.


That's simply not true

While some religions may be made for this this reason if you believe S I do in Christianity then u know that the only way to get to heaven is faith not by works

Ephesians 2:8

[Sharp Shooter]

Originally Posted by switchee

With all due respect, I don't think that Fox News is the most reliable source of information regarding this topic. They are notorious for their hatemongering.

Go to Google. Do a search with these three words: [Christians persecute Muslims] and look at the results. Now swap the order to [Muslims persecute Christians] and look at the results again. Pretty much identical and it is heavily leaning to links about Muslims persecuting Christians, predominantly in the Middle East countries of Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria.

Paint it however you want but if you want to die a gruesome death or rot in a prison, be a Muslim who converts to Christianity in the Middle East. By contrast, you could live in Rome and convert to Islam without gaining a death sentence.

This doesn't tell me that Islam is a militant religion. What it does tell me is that a very high profile segment of those who claim to be Muslim believe it is their religious duty to enforce what they believe is the will of Allah. How many are there? Enough to grab headlines but doubtful that they even number a tenth of practicing Muslims. ***

My problem is when the "90%" do too little to stop the known troublemaking faction BEFORE a tragedy is borne. Why is it so necessary for law enforcement and government intelligence to infiltrate a mosque to discover plots before they hatch? If that vast majority of Muslims did more to police their own members, there would be far fewer religious persecutions, murders, acid-assaults, and bombings.

And to preempt, of course Muslims are not the only ones worldwide who commit crimes. But this thread was started to clear up and educate about Islam and its followers. So the topic is Muslims, not everyone else. Please stay on your own topic and not try to toss it off on "the problem is everywhere" because well, it isn't.

The last item is my suggestion to not show your own prejudice too soon. To attack a news source without proof that the story they publish is actually false is a bad tactic. When you look at the Google results, at least eight pages of them, you will find Reuters, the London Telegraph, and a lot more as sources of stories about Muslim persecution of Christians. Because a story is on Fox does NOT make it false or inflammatory by default. In fact, I've seen numerous major stories that broke first on Fox before other mainstream "news" had the balls to cover the story. "Fast and Furious", the ACORN fiasco and the serial murderer Dr. Kermit Gosnell infanticides are all examples. And because you don't like or appreciate the tone of a news story does not qualify a news outlet as "hate mongering", only that you don't like how they present the news.

*** to Pingu: My numbers are simply to illustrate my belief that it is an extreme minority who are the thorn in Islam's side, so to speak. Please accept my exaggeration with no offense intended. Numbers simply help to show "the good guys vastly outnumber the bad guys."

[switchee]

Originally Posted by Sharp Shooter

The last item is my suggestion to not show your own prejudice too soon. To attack a news source without proof that the story they publish is actually false is a bad tactic. When you look at the Google results, at least eight pages of them, you will find Reuters, the London Telegraph, and a lot more as sources of stories about Muslim persecution of Christians. Because a story is on Fox does NOT make it false or inflammatory by default. In fact, I've seen numerous major stories that broke first on Fox before other mainstream "news" had the balls to cover the story. "Fast and Furious", the ACORN fiasco and the serial murderer Dr. Kermit Gosnell infanticides are all examples. And because you don't like or appreciate the tone of a news story does not qualify a news outlet as "hate mongering", only that you don't like how they present the news.

You're hijacking the thread with your argument regarding Fox News. You are more than welcome to sanctify them. I really don't care.

My point was that you need more than one right-wing news outlet to justify a blanket criticism of an entire religion, be it Islam or any other.

[Dareholic]

To what I have read, I would never be able to convert to Islam; because I practice Bi-sexuality. However, it is hard to find a GOOD source on Islam, expecially where I live. The internet is not any better either. Now am I forever a lost soul, damned for the rest of entirety in the after life because I practice Bi-sexuality, which is what make me happy.?

[Master.G]

Originally Posted by Dareholic

To what I have read, I would never be able to convert to Islam; because I practice Bi-sexuality. However, it is hard to find a GOOD source on Islam, expecially where I live. The internet is not any better either. Now am I forever a lost soul, damned for the rest of entirety in the after life because I practice Bi-sexuality, which is what make me happy.?

Yes, Bi-sexuality is something really forbidden in Islam, I am not gonna be answering your question about being "forever a lost soul, damned for the rest of entirety in the after life ", because who am I to decide. However, if you ever think to convert to Islam, it would be because you find it the true religion and it's the words and commands of God. I think at that moment, giving up something you like, wouldn't be catastrophic, in fact, you'd feel doing something good. You'd be like giving up a pleasure now, and believing you'd get much much better pleasure later .