Topping from the Bottom

[Butterfly]

In the near future, I would like to see a completely new section devoted to getDare Mentorship & Education. My hopes is that this will be a section devoted to discussing important topics and answering questions that people may have, no matter their experience level is. I also think it would be a great place to share resources that may be scattered throughout getDare, as well as in other places on the internet.

In the meantime, I am going to create designated threads in the advice section that will focus on one topic. Each topic will have discussion questions, as well links to any resources that I have found. People are encouraged to answer their questions, share their opinions, definitions or experiences as well as link to any resources they have found helpful. You may also ask questions relating to that topic and others can help answer them.

The only rules (other than the getDare posting rules) is that everybody be respectful to others. No personal attacks will be tolerated.

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TOPIC: Topping from the Bottom

In this thread, I would like to focus on the concept of "topping from the bottom".

How do you define "topping from the bottom"?

How do you handle it as a Dom/me or Top?

How do you handle it as a Sub or Bottom?

How can you prevent "topping from the bottom"?

Please feel free to share your experiences, definitions, opinions and any resources you find many be helpful.

[Butterfly]

Here are some blogs that come directly from getDare users. Please keep in mind that these are just the opinions of other users, and although this may be their experience, there is no one way to do D/s.

Topping from the Bottom by AbusiveMaster

Topping from the Bottom by TheKidWithSkills

Speaking Up in a Session by Naughtylittlegirl

Topping from the Bottom by Colosubguy

[Butterfly]

For me, Topping from the Bottom is when the bottom tries to overpower the Dom and control what is going to happen.

Personally, I hate this expression. I think that it is thrown around way too carelessly by Tops who are threatened by their bottom expressing an opinion or having a voice.

Communication is the MOST important part of any relationship, but especially D/s relationships. There are so many different ways to communicate and each relationship will have different ways that work for them, but it is important to have clear and open lines of communication. Neither partner should ever feel like they are not allowed to communicate.

A bottom should be allowed to share their thoughts, opinions and feelings without penalty. The Top should always be open to hearing what their bottom is saying, however, what they do with that information really can vary depending on what the nature of the relationship is.

It doesn't matter if the bottom is saying "I love this, please don't stop" or "I want to cum now!", because the Top gets to ultimately choose their fate, not the bottom. This would not be considered topping from the bottom.

For me, topping from the bottom only happens under certain circumstances:
* If the bottom is manipulating the Top into getting their own way. ie. They want to receive a spanking and so they deliberately break a rule.
* If the bottom makes demands or gives ultimatums ie. If you do not let me orgasm, I am going to leave
* Downright disobeying with no clear reason ie. not using a safeword or having a conversation

Honestly I would like to see this phrase disappear completely as I feel it is usually used to shut up a bottom and be allowed to do whatever you want.

[RedMike]

Words beeing thrown around no matter if they fit or not seems to be a 21th century plague. It starts with word like "trigger" which are used by absolutly everyone whithout any knowledge of that i accually means and ends with politics where you get thrown at with the worst possible insults at every given opportunity.
This of cause has the effect that the word becomes softened and invalidated. So if there is a real case of a trigger everyone thinks about something else because the word is used inccorect all the time.
So i would limit the term even further.
I wouldnt even call it "topping from the bottom" if the sub just disobeys. I think whats special about it is that the dom might not notice it because it happens somewhat secretly. In a way that the sub is still the bottom part in play but"controles" the dom from there. So you gain control while you are still "officially" playing to bottom part. Its more about manipulating and making the dom do something than about disobeying directly.
But while this seem to be such a mean manipulative thing to do i think i should mention that you can do it accidently or slip into it. I think i have done it myself allready, maybe even more than once. For me its something that developes out of beeing unsure and not wanting to talk about myself becaus it feely kind of bad. And that of cause can be solved with talking. But of cause it can turn into a serious problem it the sitiuation keeps going and the whole realationship stops beeing truthfull. And of cause it should be considerd as a major case of breaking the rules so it wont happen again

I dont only think it should be ok for the sub to say their thought and oppinions an especially thier feelings, it also makes this annoying topping from the bottom unnecessary.
If you can always tell the dom about what you want, why would you still need to manipulate them? And if you need something that badly or want to avoid something that badly that you cant accept a "no" than you should talk about while not playing. Soon.
There can allways be a solution for this kind of problem.
So i think the more open an truthfull the conversation is the lower is the risk for a topping from the bottom thing to happen.
And of cause talking makes the paly better. It makes it easier for the dom to read the sub, to find out eacu others likes and dislikes and of cause words can be hot.

[SilverPet]

I feel like both butterfly and Red Mike are mostly right. I do feel like people can be manipulative without really trying to though. I think that shouldn’t count. I think that it involves being manipulating and being controlling on purpose.

[lilith_]

I think Dominants tend to use the term "topping from the bottom" too much without really knowing what it means. I'm not topping from the bottom when I give him suggestions, or when I tell him stuff like "you know, I didn't like this, maybe if you did it this way, it would be better for me", or when I say that I enjoyed something and I'd like to do it again. I'm a person with a voice no matter if I'm submissive or not, if I am not allowed to have an opinion than that's a deal breaker for me. Any type of relationship needs communication, especially a D/s relationship.

However "topping from the bottom" CAN happen under these circumstances:

1) The Dom isn't dominant enough and the sub gets to persuade them easily into doing whatever they want. For example, if I want to smoke but I'm not always allowed to do it and I get to talk him into letting me smoke more than I usually do by shaking my ass or giving him head, then I'm sorry but what's the point of even having a Dom if they can't stand their ground? (this doesn't involve manipulation)
2) The sub is being manipulative by using guilt, or saying stuff like "if you don't do this, I am going to leave you" to get their way.
3) The "sub" is an undercover Dom who likes to troll people online when they get bored :P

[Butterfly]

Originally Posted by RedMike

I wouldnt even call it "topping from the bottom" if the sub just disobeys.

I disagree. I feel that if the Sub is disobeying or saying No without an explanation of any kind, this is a version of topping from the bottom. They are making the decisions without communicating a real concern or reason not to.

Originally Posted by RedMike

But while this seem to be such a mean manipulative thing to do i think i should mention that you can do it accidently or slip into it. I think i have done it myself allready, maybe even more than once. For me its something that developes out of beeing unsure and not wanting to talk about myself becaus it feely kind of bad. And that of cause can be solved with talking. But of cause it can turn into a serious problem it the sitiuation keeps going and the whole realationship stops beeing truthfull. And of cause it should be considerd as a major case of breaking the rules so it wont happen again

I do agree that manipulation can happen without the person being aware of it. I still think this would be considered topping from the bottom, even if it wasn't the intention.

Originally Posted by RedMike

So i think the more open an truthfull the conversation is the lower is the risk for a topping from the bottom thing to happen.
And of cause talking makes the paly better. It makes it easier for the dom to read the sub, to find out eacu others likes and dislikes and of cause words can be hot.

I agree that the more open the communication is in a relationship, the more this term becomes obsolete. If the sub feels comfortable with sharing their thoughts, feelings and experiences with their Dom, then they won't need to try and manipulate things to get what they want and need out of a relationship.

[RedMike]

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I disagree. I feel that if the Sub is disobeying or saying No without an explanation of any kind, this is a version of topping from the bottom. They are making the decisions without communicating a real concern or reason not to.

But they arent topping while still beeing at the bottom then, do they?
For me there is a difference between some kind of power struggle and "toping from the bottom". If you struggle directly and openly you arent playing the bottom part anymore

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I do agree that manipulation can happen without the person being aware of it. I still think this would be considered topping from the bottom, even if it wasn't the intention.

Yes i also think this is still toping from the bottom. But i think it needs to be adressed differently than the case when the sub just does it on purpose, beeing fully aware of what (s)he is doing
For me that two different kinds of problems

[Butterfly]

Originally Posted by RedMike

But they arent topping while still beeing at the bottom then, do they?
For me there is a difference between some kind of power struggle and "toping from the bottom". If you struggle directly and openly you arent playing the bottom part anymore

A top controls the scene. If a bottom says "No" without using a safeword or providing an explanation, then they are in control. Thus, they are topping from the bottom. That is just my opinion.

Originally Posted by RedMike

Yes i also think this is still toping from the bottom. But i think it needs to be adressed differently than the case when the sub just does it on purpose, beeing fully aware of what (s)he is doing
For me that two different kinds of problems

Oh, I agree that it is two different situations and thus should be dealt with in two different ways, but I would still classify it is as one of the only times I would consider it being topping from the bottom.

[sexualfeelings]

I always thought topping from the bottom was when the person who was getting fucked, or any other action, is the person who has the most power in the relationship.

[Butterfly]

Originally Posted by sexualfeelings

I always thought topping from the bottom was when the person who was getting fucked, or any other action, is the person who has the most power in the relationship.

I can see why you may have thought that, but I don't think that is correct at all. It refers to the bottom in the relationship trying to control the scene/relationship.

[Blue Fox]

Topping from the bottom isn't just disobeying... As Lilith said, it can happen when the dominant isn't dominant enough. The sub pushes things to get attention.

Examples: Sub starts asking if they have to do this or can they do that. Generally, the sub is hoping to get the dominant to say no just so they can feel that they've submitted to the other's desire. The sub is pushing for an outcome. Manipulating the situation from the bottom. Admittedly, it was done because the sub was feeling needy. (I can honestly say I've been in that situation.)

It seems to me (I could be mistaken) that it is hard to find Dommes who want to really dominate a guy. Note I said "hard" not impossible. There are those who do enjoy dominating a guy. But then you have to find that right mix of domination that makes both sides happy. But this is why I, sadly, have "topped from the bottom" as it were. Pushing the dominant to give out rules / orders and to show attention as a dominant. Is this the best way to resolve it? Definitely not.