Dominants, please pay attention to your words - Page 2

Your Dom · 07-29-2013, 05:45 PM

I give up just shoot me now lol, 3 times is just taking the piss ... Stupid iPhone!!!

Sharp Shooter · 07-29-2013, 06:07 PM

I'll add something that it seems hasn't been mentioned. If you're going off a typewritten page, you have a fixed script. But HOW you say those words can make all the difference in the world. I know that I can take the most basic words and put an entirely unexpected slant on how they are received. I can make something sound very innocent or with the simple tweak of a couple words it can become something entirely different. It's called "semantics". If you don't already know it, look it up.

If the submissive says he/she is fine with "humiliation", what the sub considers to be humiliating may not match up with either how the dominant defines that word or how the activity is executed by the dominant. If the argument is that the dominant demands that the sub must absolutely know what the dominant means about humiliation and degradation, that's making two assumptions: that the sub is a mind-reader and that the dominant is being both honest and realistic in his application of those words in how he plans to treat the sub.

Things also change in a relationship and it's important for BOTH parties to recognize what has changed and make appropriate adjustments. Communication and honesty are critical to avoid abuse, cruelty or damage. Without good communication and honesty, the sub is walking a high wire without a net, and a self-serving dominant is a predator looking for a victim.

Sindrato · 07-30-2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Your Dom

I don't however agree with the comment above regarding doms making all the rules and subs agreeing or find someone new, I don't believe it works anything like that to be honest.
You have to take on board what they want, any limits they have and possibly work towards them and if possible breaking them.
If you expect to be the sole rule maker and your sub stick around then I don't think you'll have that sub very long.

Ugh, sorry. I have expressed myself wrongly and came off as a total douche-bag. Of course, I didn't intend to say that a dom is all-powerful and that slave's limits should not be taken into consideration.

What I really meant is that, while a sub places limits on things that she feels uncomfortable with, or things that are too painful, etc., dom should always place his limits in such a way to ensure no harm comes to himself, or worse, his sub.

I find the submissive's limits somewhat of "soft limits" (Yes, I am aware that's not the context the phrase should be used in.). They are placed, and they are limits. They may or may not be pushed. For example, if my sub was, let's say uncomfortable with doing anal, I would certainly encourage her and try to push that limit. That does not mean that her potential inability to push that limit is a deal-breaker, far from it, especially if she has really tried it with an open mind. But will I attempt to push it if I can? Yes, I will. (Of course, pushing limits requires a certain degree of trust that can only be achieved through time.)

On the other hand, limits placed by a dominant are a type of "hard limit". I see far too many so-called doms these days that are fine with whatever the sub wants. If I say, for example, no asphyxia, I said it for safety reasons. There is no way in hell that limit could be pushed. If that's a deal breaker for a sub, than she should go and find another dominant. Points of safety are non-negotiable. Of course, the same applies to protection of mental health. And no, these limits may not be pushed even if the relationships lasts for an entire lifetime.

So, that's basically what I meant to say with that so horribly out-of-place sentence. Sorry for the confusion, and for sounding like a idiot.

Your Dom · 07-30-2013, 01:41 AM

And I now agree with your post

Tease · 07-30-2013, 11:01 AM

Thank you for another great post QuietWench, it's a very interesting topic and some good views from people here, what a Dom must do is to understand the balance if they are going to use humiliation/degradation as a punishment or just for play then how do they balance that out again to improve the subs self worth.

If you maintain that equilibrium then all is fine, the issues occur when you keep pushing down on one side and using such language to constantly repress or belittle their worth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sindrato

It is never, NEVER, the subs fault. The only thing sub can be guilty of is breaking an order. Everything else is dominant's fault. If she asks for something you feel may be dangerous for her, in any way, then don't do it. Would you hand a suicidal person a noose? I didn't think so.

I disagree with the sentiment that a sub is never at fault and in the notion that if you think something is dangerous then don't do it, a LOT of practices in bdsm carry an element of risk even simple things like bondage, there are also many attracted to edge play. Both Dom and Sub consent to all activities, both Dom and Sub can stop any activity so in many cases - the sub has ultimate control with her safeword.

A Dom will shoulder most of the responsibility I agree but both sides are intelligent, consenting adults that need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Sindrato · 07-31-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tease

I disagree with the sentiment that a sub is never at fault and in the notion that if you think something is dangerous then don't do it, a LOT of practices in bdsm carry an element of risk even simple things like bondage, there are also many attracted to edge play. Both Dom and Sub consent to all activities, both Dom and Sub can stop any activity so in many cases - the sub has ultimate control with her safeword.

When I said dangerous, I didn't mean risky. Of course, every type of play is risky. Hell, vanilla sex can be risky. But there is a difference between risky and downright dangerous. Think of it like this: Driving a car is risky, there always is a possibility of crash. However, driving a car 150 KPH in the middle of the city is dangerous. One should be done, though carefully. The other should never be done.

You said that you don't agree that a sub is never wrong, yet you didn't offer any arguments. Care to elaborate?

Also, in the unquoted part of the post, you mentioned the use of humiliation/degradation as a punishment. I can not understand that. While I do not like the usage of humiliation in any way, and do not practice it myself, I can accept it as part of play. I wouldn't label a dom irresponsible or abusive just for using it. However, the way I see it, using humiliation as punishment is downright counter-productive and mean.

If a sub is punished, it means that she did something wrong. If you use humiliation as punishment, you are bound to lower her self-confidence, and make her more likely to make another mistake. After which you punish her again, and the thing loops out of control. Frankly, to me it sounds sadistic. And not in a good way.

**Mandi** · 08-01-2013, 10:49 PM

Okay, my answer is going to be no where near as well-worded or well-thought out as so many of the answers before it so I apologize in advance. This is also a completely personal opinion that is based solely on my own experiences so it is not a general statement to be applied to all subs.

First of all, I'm not really a "sub" or "slave". I enjoy playing and I enjoy being controlled but the way I satisfy that need is not by having a dom, I will ask or agree to a dominant person doing a "session" (that's just what I have begun to call it) with me where I will give them complete control (within my limits of course) for a certain amount of hours. This is normally a few hours to a day. Then after the session is over they no longer have control over me but I mean, I don't mind if we continue talking after that and I definitely have kept up having these sessions with the same person for a while on more than one occasion so relationships did develop. So just keep this in mind when I answer.

Okay, now in my likes I have listed humiliation/degradation because it, in general, turns me on and makes me wet. That is what I would describe as a like. Now when I am about to have a session with someone and they are also into degradation (some just aren't, and I don't need it to have a good time) I have to tell them lots of distinctions and limits I have within the category of humiliation. There are some aspects of it that I just can't do. I won't go into detail though.

But, things I am okay with normally (and what was mentioned in the original post) are the use of those degrading words such as slut, whore, useless, worthless etc. Now, what I am going to say next, I am not sure if I am going to get across just right...

I am okay with these, first of all, solely in an online relationship. In real life, without going into too much of my emotional shit, I have struggled before really terribly low self-esteem and still think of myself badly in many aspects that people tell me frequently I should not think badly of. If someone who really knew me in real life were to use any of those words on me I would hate it. I would not at all find it arousing like I do when it is online. The reason being is because the person in real life knows me. They know everything about me, not just what I choose to share on the internet. But with someone online there is like an emotional barrier between their words and it hitting me hard because I know in the back of my mind "oh they don't really know me". THEN it is arousing because it doesn't deeply emotionally affect me... MOST of the time.

Now this gets into the "most" of the time from above and also a bit of the previous commenters ideas that it is all the subs responsibility. I can go into a session feeling fine, and feeling fine about myself during the session while I am being humiliated and degraded and being called those names. It is all fine and is just turning me on more, so why would I think it is anything that I should stop? There is no reason. BUT then when the session ends, and it is just me and my own thoughts, I can feel like total shit. I just feel terrible and actually worthless. It has happened to me more than once. It is almost like during the session the humiliation crossed this unknown subconscious emotional limit I had. There was no way for me to really stop it, as I didn't know it was being crossed til later when it really hits me.

I have no suggestion exactly as how to stop this from happening, so this post might have been a complete waste of time, I just wanted to share my experience with this because I have had it affect my mood, emotions, and self-esteem before.

I do want to say though that Doms should be careful and try and gauge where their sub is feeling about themselves. If your sub likes humiliation solely because it arouses her (which I mean, is the reason subs like it) but don't take degradation to the very extremes that some subs do (wanting to feel it all the time) you need to make sure that your sub doesn't actually start to TRULY believe your words. That, in my opinion, is where it gets dangerous. If your sub starts to act differently and more down on themselves then normal (this is completely relevant to each sub individually assuming you have the relationship with them to know their normal behavior) then you should take a break from the degradation. Like the original post said, it builds. Just don't let it build so high that your sub completely shatters without realizing that they were being broken before it is too late.

Under your control · 09-03-2013, 05:33 PM

Does anyone here actually know what aftercare is?

Humiliation is a turn on, but being left humiliated can cause quite serious damage in the long run.

What goes on during the scene is of course negotiated but the Dom/me still has a responsibility of after care to the submissive. If a Dom has just sat at his keyboard jacking himself off while calling some woman a worthless slut, whore, or pig for the last hour he should have the respect, time, and compassion to administer proper aftercare and make sure he leaves the submissive feeling valued, and generally happy.

After a bondage session you untie all the knots you have just tied, after a session of humiliation, you should do exactly the same.

Sharp Shooter · 09-03-2013, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Under your control

Does anyone here actually know what aftercare is?

Only 15 posts and you bring up one of the most critical (and fulfilling) parts of a session! Somehow we all forgot to talk about aftercare. Thanks for catching this!

Kitten · 09-04-2013, 09:19 AM

I think it's pretty important to note that being submissive does not excuse you from being a responsible adult, by the way. Safe, sane and consensual is a two-way street to me. Meaning, both parties have to communicate, and have to try to keep everything pleasant and enjoyable at core, and not let it turn out into an abusive or unfulfilling relationship.

What I am trying to say is, yes- Dominants should be careful with what they do and how they do it.
But also, submissives should speak up if they start feeling negatively about certain practices, or in this case words.

Dominants are not all-knowing beings, unfortunately.

07-29-2013, 05:45 PM	#16
Your Dom Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: The UK Posts: 93	I give up just shoot me now lol, 3 times is just taking the piss ... Stupid iPhone!!! __________________ Add me on Kik for more direct contact daredomuk Female only My dares are original and all from my own head... I will push your limits!! PM me answering the following for a dare / task / punishment 1: Public or semi public? 2: Where do you plan to carry out your dare? (On a walk, In work etc) please give some detail so i can design your dare better. 3: What toys etc would you like to use? 4: How will you report? (Full story? ... Pics? .. Both?)

07-29-2013, 06:07 PM	#17
Sharp Shooter getDare Succubus Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: So Calif where the water meets the sand. GMT -7 Posts: 1,789 Blog Entries: 1	I'll add something that it seems hasn't been mentioned. If you're going off a typewritten page, you have a fixed script. But HOW you say those words can make all the difference in the world. I know that I can take the most basic words and put an entirely unexpected slant on how they are received. I can make something sound very innocent or with the simple tweak of a couple words it can become something entirely different. It's called "semantics". If you don't already know it, look it up. If the submissive says he/she is fine with "humiliation", what the sub considers to be humiliating may not match up with either how the dominant defines that word or how the activity is executed by the dominant. If the argument is that the dominant demands that the sub must absolutely know what the dominant means about humiliation and degradation, that's making two assumptions: that the sub is a mind-reader and that the dominant is being both honest and realistic in his application of those words in how he plans to treat the sub. Things also change in a relationship and it's important for BOTH parties to recognize what has changed and make appropriate adjustments. Communication and honesty are critical to avoid abuse, cruelty or damage. Without good communication and honesty, the sub is walking a high wire without a net, and a self-serving dominant is a predator looking for a victim. __________________ *** Never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. Ask Me Anything Mature, dominant Male in search of a very special woman for a very unique journey. See my GD ad for more information.

07-30-2013, 01:41 AM	#19
Your Dom Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: The UK Posts: 93	And I now agree with your post __________________ Add me on Kik for more direct contact daredomuk Female only My dares are original and all from my own head... I will push your limits!! PM me answering the following for a dare / task / punishment 1: Public or semi public? 2: Where do you plan to carry out your dare? (On a walk, In work etc) please give some detail so i can design your dare better. 3: What toys etc would you like to use? 4: How will you report? (Full story? ... Pics? .. Both?)

08-01-2013, 10:49 PM	#22
Mandi getDare Succubus Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: United States Posts: 1,512 Blog Entries: 30	Okay, my answer is going to be no where near as well-worded or well-thought out as so many of the answers before it so I apologize in advance. This is also a completely personal opinion that is based solely on my own experiences so it is not a general statement to be applied to all subs. First of all, I'm not really a "sub" or "slave". I enjoy playing and I enjoy being controlled but the way I satisfy that need is not by having a dom, I will ask or agree to a dominant person doing a "session" (that's just what I have begun to call it) with me where I will give them complete control (within my limits of course) for a certain amount of hours. This is normally a few hours to a day. Then after the session is over they no longer have control over me but I mean, I don't mind if we continue talking after that and I definitely have kept up having these sessions with the same person for a while on more than one occasion so relationships did develop. So just keep this in mind when I answer. Okay, now in my likes I have listed humiliation/degradation because it, in general, turns me on and makes me wet. That is what I would describe as a like. Now when I am about to have a session with someone and they are also into degradation (some just aren't, and I don't need it to have a good time) I have to tell them lots of distinctions and limits I have within the category of humiliation. There are some aspects of it that I just can't do. I won't go into detail though. But, things I am okay with normally (and what was mentioned in the original post) are the use of those degrading words such as slut, whore, useless, worthless etc. Now, what I am going to say next, I am not sure if I am going to get across just right... I am okay with these, first of all, solely in an online relationship. In real life, without going into too much of my emotional shit, I have struggled before really terribly low self-esteem and still think of myself badly in many aspects that people tell me frequently I should not think badly of. If someone who really knew me in real life were to use any of those words on me I would hate it. I would not at all find it arousing like I do when it is online. The reason being is because the person in real life knows me. They know everything about me, not just what I choose to share on the internet. But with someone online there is like an emotional barrier between their words and it hitting me hard because I know in the back of my mind "oh they don't really know me". THEN it is arousing because it doesn't deeply emotionally affect me... MOST of the time. Now this gets into the "most" of the time from above and also a bit of the previous commenters ideas that it is all the subs responsibility. I can go into a session feeling fine, and feeling fine about myself during the session while I am being humiliated and degraded and being called those names. It is all fine and is just turning me on more, so why would I think it is anything that I should stop? There is no reason. BUT then when the session ends, and it is just me and my own thoughts, I can feel like total shit. I just feel terrible and actually worthless. It has happened to me more than once. It is almost like during the session the humiliation crossed this unknown subconscious emotional limit I had. There was no way for me to really stop it, as I didn't know it was being crossed til later when it really hits me. I have no suggestion exactly as how to stop this from happening, so this post might have been a complete waste of time, I just wanted to share my experience with this because I have had it affect my mood, emotions, and self-esteem before. I do want to say though that Doms should be careful and try and gauge where their sub is feeling about themselves. If your sub likes humiliation solely because it arouses her (which I mean, is the reason subs like it) but don't take degradation to the very extremes that some subs do (wanting to feel it all the time) you need to make sure that your sub doesn't actually start to TRULY believe your words. That, in my opinion, is where it gets dangerous. If your sub starts to act differently and more down on themselves then normal (this is completely relevant to each sub individually assuming you have the relationship with them to know their normal behavior) then you should take a break from the degradation. Like the original post said, it builds. Just don't let it build so high that your sub completely shatters without realizing that they were being broken before it is too late. __________________ F/19/bi I am a little princess, be nice <3 I am only on this site for FRIENDS. Nothing else. Please don't ask. Ask Me Anything Thread

09-03-2013, 05:33 PM	#23
Under your control Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 15	Does anyone here actually know what aftercare is? Humiliation is a turn on, but being left humiliated can cause quite serious damage in the long run. What goes on during the scene is of course negotiated but the Dom/me still has a responsibility of after care to the submissive. If a Dom has just sat at his keyboard jacking himself off while calling some woman a worthless slut, whore, or pig for the last hour he should have the respect, time, and compassion to administer proper aftercare and make sure he leaves the submissive feeling valued, and generally happy. After a bondage session you untie all the knots you have just tied, after a session of humiliation, you should do exactly the same.

09-04-2013, 09:19 AM	#25
Kitten The One & Only Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Gehenna Posts: 1,216 Blog Entries: 2	I think it's pretty important to note that being submissive does not excuse you from being a responsible adult, by the way. Safe, sane and consensual is a two-way street to me. Meaning, both parties have to communicate, and have to try to keep everything pleasant and enjoyable at core, and not let it turn out into an abusive or unfulfilling relationship. What I am trying to say is, yes- Dominants should be careful with what they do and how they do it. But also, submissives should speak up if they start feeling negatively about certain practices, or in this case words. Dominants are not all-knowing beings, unfortunately.