Consent: Through a Vanilla Eye
I was listening to the radio in the car with a vanilla friend. One of those "If your girlfriend says no and you keep going, you're a rapist" warnings comes on.
We started talking about how some of the proposed ideas to require written consent are a bit impractical. For the everyday occurence.
And, of course, I say, "Well, you know, consent doesn't JUST apply to 'Can we have sex?' "
Vanilla: What do you mean?!
By now, I'm so used to thinking about consent in relation to BDSM, that I automatically apply it to that broader question of "WHAT is it OK for us to do?" I forget that the majority of the general population don't think about asking:
"Is it OK if I slap your ass?" "Is this position good?" "Do you have any issues with bodily fluids?" To me it seems somewhat obvious that you should discuss such things.
*Note: It IS possible to have this conversation and still have fun at the same time.*
I've talked to people who have the philosophy that they should just try things out to see how the other person reacts. You know, because if you ask first, they might say no. Easier to ask forgiveness than permission, right?
I can't speak for everyone, but I'll give my views on that. If you're a proponent of the theory mentioned above, please think about this.
If you can't be bothered to seek my opinion BEFORE trying something with me, why would I trust you with anything at all? I have no problem with my ass being slapped. I have a problem with it being slapped when the person slapping it doesn't KNOW if I have a problem with it because they haven't ASKED. And maybe, just maybe, if they were to ask me if they could slap my ass, I'd say, "Sure, but could you please pin me down and tie me up... while you're at it."
Just saying.
We started talking about how some of the proposed ideas to require written consent are a bit impractical. For the everyday occurence.
And, of course, I say, "Well, you know, consent doesn't JUST apply to 'Can we have sex?' "
Vanilla: What do you mean?!
By now, I'm so used to thinking about consent in relation to BDSM, that I automatically apply it to that broader question of "WHAT is it OK for us to do?" I forget that the majority of the general population don't think about asking:
"Is it OK if I slap your ass?" "Is this position good?" "Do you have any issues with bodily fluids?" To me it seems somewhat obvious that you should discuss such things.
*Note: It IS possible to have this conversation and still have fun at the same time.*
I've talked to people who have the philosophy that they should just try things out to see how the other person reacts. You know, because if you ask first, they might say no. Easier to ask forgiveness than permission, right?
I can't speak for everyone, but I'll give my views on that. If you're a proponent of the theory mentioned above, please think about this.
If you can't be bothered to seek my opinion BEFORE trying something with me, why would I trust you with anything at all? I have no problem with my ass being slapped. I have a problem with it being slapped when the person slapping it doesn't KNOW if I have a problem with it because they haven't ASKED. And maybe, just maybe, if they were to ask me if they could slap my ass, I'd say, "Sure, but could you please pin me down and tie me up... while you're at it."
Just saying.Total Comments 14
Comments
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See, we may have discussed this, but I think it worth saying where people can see - for me, it's not even related to BDSM/kink/etc.
I just can't fathom how you can't check with someone what they do and don't feel comfortable with. In general, not just kink. In fact, not even just re: sex...
Anyway, I don't really understand the idea of "I'll risk upsetting someone, maybe causing irrevocable damage to our relationship to try something" when you can say "I'm interested in X - can we discuss trying it out. If you're not totally comfortable, we can start small and how would we make it less [problem here] for you"...
And if you can't discuss it, then don't do it. Maybe open a line of communication about making it easier to talk about things and be more open. If you can't do that part - consider if this person's right for you at all.Posted 06-24-2014 at 12:10 AM by DoingMyBest 
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I completely agree with this - it really does shake me up when someone springs something on me in a session, because it feels almost underhanded (whether it's intended that way or not) that they couldn't have included that in our week-long discussion before the actual session. In situations that are that intimate, even when it is just casual, asking forgiveness rather than permission becomes harmful on so many levels. Thank you so much for this post, very well put
Posted 06-24-2014 at 12:55 AM by naughtylittlegirl
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@Doom: I think the vast majority of people don't REALIZE how easy it is violate someone's consent. There are so many things that we get used to doing and don't stop to think about whether it bothers anyone. I find myself doing it on occasion. I curse freely and will slip and do it in public sometimes. I touch someone lightly on the back when I'm passing behind them in close quarters if I don't think they've seen me. And probably more things that don't come to mind immediately. But these are habits I've built. And they have the potential to offend. I think the oblivious consent violator is a slightly different animal from the deliberate disregarding "Charge ahead UNTIL I hear no" bull. The first most likely just needs education.
@naughtylittlegirl: Fortunately, the situation I spoke of in regards to asking forgiveness or permission wasn't anyone from here. It was a vanilla friend. And maybe that works out ok in the vanilla world for him. But I feel like it's a topic worth discussing. We don't require people to go through a class to be kinky. So guys who think like this could get on here and not even be aware of how to make sure they don't hurt someone.Posted 07-03-2014 at 01:15 PM by kittenlyss
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I have found a few on here, and I really don't think they meant harm, but I also don't think they realized beforehand the harm they could have caused (and how much it shook me in the session). In a sense, I avoid a great deal of risk because I only play online, never in person, but things can still happen. The only person I trust to surprise me in a session, and I mean really surprise me, is my Dom, because he knows me better than I do (truly) and he takes such thoroughly excellent care of me I can trust him to do that. But otherwise, standing orders are talk to me or it's an automatic 'no'.
Posted 07-03-2014 at 03:05 PM by naughtylittlegirl
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@naughtylittlegirl: I think most of them don't. They just haven't thought about what it might be like to be the sub in that situation. And asked (sometimes TOLD) to do something that hadn't been discussed ahead of time. As you said, it's jarring. And some subs who don't have the "Talk to me or get an automatic No" rule, might agree in the heat of the moment. And regret it later. For that matter, a sub could have a kink that a dom doesn't, and isn't comfortable with, and try to coax them into indulging it mid-session
Posted 07-03-2014 at 04:35 PM by kittenlyss
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Heehee, there are a few I'd like to see having to do a session as a sub so they can get a feel for what it's like to juggle sixteen commands at once and then be told they need to learn to multitask, or have something bizarre almost demanded of them about an hour into play, or be told to do something that they know could cause them genuine injury and be met with complete confusion when they protest. Not that I'm vindictive at all...
But I was certainly one of those subs who bowed to a few wishes I shouldn't have. What actually helped me break out of that was doms trying to 'coerce' me once we were further into a session to do something I'd already said no to, and it made me dig my heels in and go into 'spite' mode. After that, it was come hell or high water, I wasn't going to do it. Perhaps not the best attitude, but it made me stick to my guns better.Posted 07-03-2014 at 04:44 PM by naughtylittlegirl
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@naughtylittlegirl: That would be funny to see. There was talk at one point about chaining our doms up in a dungeon... so that we could torture them and have our way with them. Although that's not quite what you were talking about, I think.
And, I can be much the same way as you in reaction to coercion. Although, I call mine "Fuck Off" button. I've outright refused to do something I had absolutely no issues with completing simply because I didn't like the manner in which the idea was presented to me.Posted 07-03-2014 at 05:18 PM by kittenlyss
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I wasn't thinking our doms, at least not mine because I haven't had any issues with him that have incited that kind of frustration - plus he'd spank me beyond red after, I imagine. But a few doms I have played with casually have led me to believe they might benefit from a little perspective. Even just to understand the effect that pacing has, where you can jump from having far too little time to do something they want you to do in a session to waiting so long for a reply you think they may have had a stroke or something.
That is exactly how I feel, and I love that you call it that With me, they lose any chance of that even becoming a future option, because they've now crossed the line. I have found that because of how he approaches things, my Dom can get me to do things, get me excited about things, that no one else can. And it's because he has taken the time to figure out how I work, he cares about me, and he is actively considerate. It makes a huge difference in my willingness, rather than some random person with no claim on me just making demands so they can get off.Posted 07-03-2014 at 05:25 PM by naughtylittlegirl
Updated 07-03-2014 at 05:27 PM by naughtylittlegirl -
@naughtylittlegirl: Oh, that idea was my bratty side coming out. And I have no doubt that he would make me regret it after. But, oh, I would enjoy myself in the meantime. *angelic face* And, yeah, the pacing can sometimes be annoying. I hate when they say "Tell me when you're done with that" and take 5 minutes to acknowledge you after you did. Like, really? YOU, learn to multi-task. But, I am slightly demanding. Maybe I'm not really a sub...
I get way more excited when trying things with him than I ever have with anyone else. I even get excited when doing a dislike for him. And, even before we were official, he was the only playmate with new toy/kink privileges.Posted 07-03-2014 at 05:44 PM by kittenlyss
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Lol, oh I love that ('YOU learn to multi-task') - it does make me wonder sometimes if they are really that into the session and if me submitting actually matters when they take a long time (and I mean 10-15 minutes) to respond. I am fully engaged. I am not checking email, cleaning my house, chatting with other people, updating Facebook, I am in a session and fully focused on you. What they hell are you doing?
And I am pretty much at the point right now where 99% of new things I only want to do with my Dom because he's the one I trust to that extent, and I'd rather have those 'firsts' with him than anyone else.Posted 07-03-2014 at 06:10 PM by naughtylittlegirl
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@naughtylittlegirl: hehe, I'm a bit... cheeky.
And it is a great feeling to know that you have their full attention.
I do also absolutely love having firsts with Almost.
Posted 07-03-2014 at 06:25 PM by kittenlyss
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I LOVE this blog post. So much so that I made a mental note after reading it to come back and comment and here I am a week later
I've never thought about consent in the way you describe before. I think if more vanilla people did, they'd be a lot less vanilla people.
On the flip side, there is something to be said for unspoken consent in a trusting relationship (using body language). I might not know that I like being tied up, or ice, or nipples pinched, until someone tries it on me. Indeed, if someone asked me to try it, my first reaction could easily have been mock horror: "Why would you do that? Why would you WANT to do that?". Having someone I can trust who dares to do such things without asking ahead of time can be a great way to explore likes/dislikes.
That said, I stand by my initial statement that if more vanilla people thought about consent this way, that would be an amazing thing.Posted 07-09-2014 at 02:49 PM by madl
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And the reason why I say more vanilla people should think about consent in this way is that, even in a trusting relationship, it can be very easy to stick with what you know your partner likes and not try to push the boundaries (i.e. my entire 3rd paragraph never actually happens). After all, you don't want to give the impression that you're dissatisfied with your sex life, or pressure your partner into something she wouldn't like.
Ok, I'm going to stop with my incoherent but excited babbling about this nowPosted 07-09-2014 at 02:54 PM by madl
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Oh, yay! I'm flattered that you thought it was worth mental notemaking.Quote:Originally Posted by madl
I LOVE this blog post. So much so that I made a mental note after reading it to come back and comment and here I am a week later
I agree that once you know your partner well enough, you can have a sort of blanket consent. I think it's the closest you can really come to being "no limits," maybe not that you don't HAVE limits, but more that your partner knows what they are without you saying. As you said, body language can be a major part of navigating.Quote:Originally Posted by madl
I've never thought about consent in the way you describe before. I think if more vanilla people did, they'd be a lot less vanilla people.
On the flip side, there is something to be said for unspoken consent in a trusting relationship (using body language).
In vanilla relationships, I tend to be the one who is afraid to bring things up. Honestly, I think in vanilla relationships, I think it's too easy to fall too far to one extreme. Either afraid to bring things up for discussion or trying things too soon without discussion. Although, I suppose the last may not be precisely kink, just likely not educated on kink. But, yeah, basically, I think if we had these discussions in vanilla relationships, we would discover a lot more about each other.
Your comment made perfect sense and you're more than welcome to babble at me anytime.Quote:Originally Posted by madl
Ok, I'm going to stop with my incoherent but excited babbling about this now.Posted 07-14-2014 at 12:39 AM by kittenlyss
