bestiality

[theone]

Originally Posted by MercilessDomme

To stick my nose into what is developing into a private, er, dogfight...

On the question of animal welfare, one might ask why coupling with an animal is worse than chopping off its head and eating it.

No, it’s not a dogfight. Please feel free to voice your opinion, that’s what the thread is all about.

I have to go now, I will check in to the post later, maybe.

[RiskyVenture]

Originally Posted by theone

Yes lots of people do, the group largely responsible for these ideas is called civilisation or human society.

We're discussing whether it's wrong or not. Not if it's broadly accepted. We both know the answer to that and it's completely irrelevant. If you think it's right to accept intolerance because it's the norm, then I don't see how you're any better than the common Nazi in WW2. And don't even try to evade this point with Godwin's law.

Maybe you should consider if intolerance is the foundation of civilizations or a biproduct.

Personally I measure the advance of a civilization by it's tolerance. Meanwhile you can go worship Taliban and the Third Reich.

Originally Posted by theone

There are many reasons and arguments of why bestiality or zoophilia are wrong and cause harm. Examples are: Illegal, crimes against nature, animal abuse, cruel, irresponsible, non consent by the animal, immoral, perverse, degrading, disgusting, unhygienic and causing the introduction of diseases.

Not a single valid argument.

It's illegal, in some countries yes, so is it for females to not cover their face in other countries. If you think laws are perfect representations of right and wrong I suggest you move to an ultra Islamic country where the law represents the word of God.

It's a crime against nature, how? Like it's endangering the rain forest and ozone layer?

Animal abuse, cruel and irresponsible, again, how? Cruel means with intent to harm. If that's what bestiality is to you, I think you got it wrong.

As for non consent, that has already been addressed.

Immoral, perverse, degrading and disgusting. Yes, that is after all what makes something wrong. Nothing but Nazi propaganda, literally. This was the excuse to kill millions of Jews, homosexuals and disabled people. But hey, that's what laws, society and culture dictated, so it had to be the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by theone

We live in a society with rules, laws, morality, ethics, hygiene and standards. Why? Because we are human beings that’s why.

Human beings live by standards that we ourselves determine via reasoned arguments not purely by instinct driven desires. Dogs, sheep, cows and whatever are not concerned about rape, paedophiles, theft, laws, etc. Why because they are animals and they are instinctive.

That's not an argument for or against anything, that's just an observation. You could ban strawberries with that rant. All you're arguing is just public opinion. As if that had anything to do with right or wrong.

Originally Posted by theone

Bestiality is what it says it is, the lowering of ones self to the level of an animal for the purpose of sexual gratification.

Do you lower yourself to the level of an animal by engaging in any activity with it or is sex the only equalizer? I keep reading about people who are dared to dryhump furnitures and what not, does that mean they lower themselves to the level of, say, a coffee table?

One thing I think we can all agree with you on though is that it is wrong to do something for sexual gratification.

Originally Posted by theone

Why would you even consider doing that? Its almost as bad as trolling.

Why? Did you read the post you're objecting to? It pretty clearly states that I'm not a zoophile. Why would express your hatred for trolls in the same line that you show complete disregard for what has actually been said. Maybe you're just trying to derail the discussion. I don't know.

[theone]

Originally Posted by RiskyVenture

Why? Did you read the post you're objecting to? It pretty clearly states that I'm not a zoophile. Why would express your hatred for trolls in the same line that you show complete disregard for what has actually been said. Maybe you're just trying to derail the discussion. I don't know.

Yes I read the post. Yes I know you’re not a zoophile and therefore the comment was not a directed one.

To clarify I was making a general statement NOT a statement against you or any specific individual.

The thread topic is about bestiality and the question raised was in connection as to if posters consider it right or wrong. I made a clear statement as did others that I consider it wrong. I then gave further reasons to support my opinion. I am not attacking your beliefs and I expect you do the same with me. I am simply addressing the subject of the post.

You are free to tender your opinion. However the thread has degraded into an attempted flame war and personal attacks on the views and opinions of specific individuals. I am not going to facilitate you with an argument in that respect. I have made a contribution and may again contribute further. You are at liberty to do the same if you have a point to make.

To clarify I consider bestiality to be totally wrong and I have given reasons to suport my opinion. That is all this thread is really about. Nothing more.

[RiskyVenture]

Originally Posted by theone

The thread topic is about bestiality and the question raised was in connection as to if posters consider it right or wrong. I made a clear statement as did others that I consider it wrong. I then gave further reasons to support my opinion.

With all due respect, name just one of those reasons which you believe is actually valid.

I'm not calling you on your opinion, which you of course are entitled to, but it's basis which seems like nothing more than excuses to discriminate against people who aren't as conservative as you.


On a side note, the couple upstairs is having loud sex.

[theone]

Originally Posted by RiskyVenture

With all due respect, name just one of those reasons which you believe is actually valid.

I'm not calling you on your opinion, which you of course are entitled to, but it's basis which seems like nothing more than excuses to discriminate against people who aren't as conservative as you.


On a side note, the couple upstairs is having loud sex.

I am not discriminating against anyone so please refrain from making that false accusation again. The truth of the matter is that you are discriminating against me because you do not like my ethical standing on this issue. Or else you are trolling either way is not important I have stated my opinion and that is that.

All my reasons are valid because they are interconnected. The issue simply can’t be dismissed by breaking it down into dismissible components. Reasons why societies make moral and ethical laws are more complex than that. However the central issue is that bestiality devalues the human status by lowering the concentual expressions of person relationships to the state of instinctive animalistic behaviour solely for the purpose of sexual gratification. And don’t try to make a straw man argument by saying you can hump a table leg, that is not the same at all.

However neither do I intend to change my conviction that bestiality is wrong or is an unhealthy practice for society in general. My suggestion is that you first state your opinion clearly with your reasons and stop trying to start a flame war.

[00infinity]

Originally Posted by theone

I am not discriminating against anyone so please refrain from making that false accusation again. The truth of the matter is that you are discriminating against me because you do not like my ethical standing on this issue. Or else you are trolling either way is not important I have stated my opinion and that is that.

All my reasons are valid because they are interconnected. The issue simply can’t be dismissed by breaking it down into dismissible components. Reasons why societies make moral and ethical laws are more complex than that. However the central issue is that bestiality devalues the human status by lowering the concentual expressions of person relationships to the state of instinctive animalistic behaviour solely for the purpose of sexual gratification. And don’t try to make a straw man argument by saying you can hump a table leg, that is not the same at all.

However neither do I intend to change my conviction that bestiality is wrong or is an unhealthy practice for society in general. My suggestion is that you first state your opinion clearly with your reasons and stop trying to start a flame war.

Whats wrong with degrading a girl to the point of an animal for her sexual gratification, thats what you keep avoiding you don't have any valid points, some girls like being degraded to that point, and if that's their thing good for them since they aren't hurting anything (despite what you'd lead ppl to believe)

[theone]

Originally Posted by 00infinity

Whats wrong with degrading a girl to the point of an animal for her sexual gratification, thats what you keep avoiding you don't have any valid points, some girls like being degraded to that point, and if that's their thing good for them since they aren't hurting anything (despite what you'd lead ppl to believe)

That is not what we are discussing here at all. Granted, maybe you are but I’m not.

The discussion thread clearly states:

Originally Posted by uncurios

hey guys jst wanted to start a discusiion on bestiality. what do you think of it right or wrong u into it etc etc

And guess what, that’s exactly what most people are doing here stating what they think about bestiality (not the humiliation of girls, not BDSM, not homosexuality and not flying saucers from the planet zork), so let us get on with the discussion topic.

For your benefit I will simplify my answer to exactly match the criteria of the thread proposal.

I think it is wrong and I’m not into it. Period.

Unless of course you have some valid opinions and reasons to state yourself.

P.S. Also I assume that you do know the difference between a discussion and a debate?

Note: Do not feed the trolls.

[00infinity]

Originally Posted by theone

That is not what we are discussing here at all. Granted, maybe you are but I’m not.

The discussion thread clearly states:


And guess what, that’s exactly what most people are doing here stating what they think about bestiality (not the humiliation of girls, not BDSM, not homosexuality and not flying saucers from the planet zork), so let us get on with the discussion topic.

For your benefit I will simplify my answer to exactly match the criteria of the thread proposal.

I think it is wrong and I’m not into it. Period.

Unless of course you have some valid opinions and reasons to state yourself.

Note: Do not feed the trolls.

so your saying it doesn't matter that you have no valid point since it's just an opinion?

[theone]

Originally Posted by 00infinity

so your saying it doesn't matter that you have no valid point since it's just an opinion?

No, I’m not saying that.

Are you even going to bother to contribute to the thread yourself by correctly stating your formatted input in accordance with the thread discussion topic?

I am sorry but I have better things to do with my time than to engage in an endless and pointless debate with yourself, this is getting silly.

I am simply contributing to a discussion, I have no time or desire for a debate of this nature.

[RiskyVenture]

Originally Posted by theone

I am not discriminating against anyone so please refrain from making that false accusation again.

At no point did I accuse you for discriminating. I made sure to use the word "seems" to underline that it's not a fact, but my subjective perception.

Originally Posted by theone

The truth of the matter is that you are discriminating against me because you do not like my ethical standing on this issue. Or else you are trolling either way is not important I have stated my opinion and that is that.

In no way do I discriminate against you, in fact I'm telling you I'd actually like to hear what you have to say. That's something to think about if you want to turn this into a matter of false accusations.

Originally Posted by theone

All my reasons are valid because they are interconnected. The issue simply can’t be dismissed by breaking it down into dismissible components.

Reasons do not become valid just because they're interconnected. I have no idea who would teach you a rule like that.

It's like me saying it's wrong to come to this site because it's immoral, perverted, cruel, irresponsible and degrading. Sure some of the reasons are blatantly wrong and others are irrelevant, but by your logic they don't have to be true or relevant, just interconnected.

You can't have an expression, be it mathematical, logical or semantical, and claim that it's okay for all the parts to be wrong as long as they're interconnected. To wrongs do not make a right.

Originally Posted by theone

Reasons why societies make moral and ethical laws are more complex than that.

Than that? What is that? At any rate it's completely irrelevant because different countries have different laws.

Originally Posted by theone

However the central issue is that bestiality devalues the human status by lowering the concentual expressions of person relationships to the state of instinctive animalistic behaviour solely for the purpose of sexual gratification.

No it doesn't devalue the person's status and even if it did, isn't that up to the individual. Personally, I wouldn't think any less of someone because he or she got off on blowing her/his dog. I would never think less of anyone for doing something I may or may not find repulsive, as long as they don't harm anyone. In fact, I have respect for anyone who has the balls to ignore what others think.

As for "instinctive animalistic behavior solely for the purpose of sexual gratification." Sex is always animalistic behavior regardless of who or what you fuck. You can create a baby the scientific way by artificial semination or you can get one by doing like animals, fucking. The animalistic way.

Originally Posted by theone

And don’t try to make a straw man argument by saying you can hump a table leg, that is not the same at all.

I know it's not the same. I was making an example of your past reasoning when you implied, that you are what you fuck. But I'm glad we agree, because that only proves your logic was flawed.

Originally Posted by theone

However neither do I intend to change my conviction that bestiality is wrong or is an unhealthy practice for society in general.

Do you think intolerance is a healthy practice for society? Would intolerance make the world a better place? How about cigarettes, fastfood or most of the fetishes discussed here, are they healthy for society?

Originally Posted by theone

My suggestion is that you first state your opinion clearly with your reasons and stop trying to start a flame war.

A flame war? Who did I flame? I am seriously trying to encourage you to stay on topic and provide as much as one single valid reason for why you think it's wrong and you keep going on about false accusations, flamewars and trolling.

As for a clearly stated opinion, have you read anything I've written so far? I do NOT think bestiality is wrong, how is that anything but obvious?

And for the reason, I've given it countless times before, now debunk it or accept it: It's not wrong since it doesn't cause any harm.

It's based on a very simple home-brewed expression: An action is as wrong as the cumulative harm it causes.

PS. I agree that reasons can be interconnected, but that doesn't change that each has to be true, valid and relevant. If not, anyone, like you, can just make up random invalid reasons and claim that combined they form a valid reason. Logic just doesn't work like that.

[Night-1991]

Ok, this has turned from a friendly discussion to "fact stating" and "abusive comments"...

[theone]

Originally Posted by RiskyVenture

At no point did I accuse you for discriminating. I made sure to use the word "seems" to underline that it's not a fact, but my subjective perception.

In no way do I discriminate against you, in fact I'm telling you I'd actually like to hear what you have to say. That's something to think about if you want to turn this into a matter of false accusations.

Point of discrimination now clarified with yourself.

Second point is that I was simply contributing to a discussion and I thought I made it clear several times that I do not want a debate on this subject with yourself or with 00infinity. I did think that that was clear from my posts. I don’t have the time for that and this is not a debate thread. Sorry.

[theone]

Originally Posted by Night-1991

Ok, this has turned from a friendly discussion to "fact stating" and "abusive comments"...

No that’s not true, Night.

I myself am just trying to make the point that I don’t want a continued debate and neither do I want my posts misrepresented.

There is a difference between a debate and a discussion.

[00infinity]

Originally Posted by theone

No that’s not true, Night.

I myself am just trying to make the point that I don’t want a continued debate and neither do I want my posts misrepresented.

There is a difference between a debate and a discussion.

If you don't want to continue it then stop posting and/or admit your points are invalid

[theone]

Sorry no ultimatums. There is simply nothing for me to admit to anyway.

I have my own views as do you so lets simply agree to differ.

Have a nice day.