Why S/M is NOT for underage? - Page 5

nellybell · 09-14-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

What the hell does more easily influenced have to do with bdsm? As others have pointed out many people get into bdsm type things without any prior exposure and it's just something they like. If anything that source benefits my points more. Saying something is wrong when someone is a kid and/or teen will make them think it's wrong all through their life even if in your opinion it isn't wrong anymore when they hit 18 (because that's a magical age).

Actually being easily influenced has a lot to do with what could go bad with a relationship. If you have a young, horny, teen who gets into this without knowing what to expect or how an actual relationship should be and how a master should act you leave open the door for an abusive relationship. Being more easily influenced than others they can be convinced that this is how a relationship is supposed to be, while it is actually just an abusive person pushing an uninformed stupid person into doing stupid things.

This of course is not the case with everyone but I have seen a few cases where girls are convinced that this is how it should be and put themselves through hell and come out with permanent damage. You may argue that its their own fault or whatever, but you can't really blame them if they were uninformed and basically have a disadvantage with thinking otherwise.

That can happen to anyone though underage or not. I don't have a lot against underage s/m as long as it is done with some common sense and both parties are well informed. It is far more important to educate underage users then try and stop them from seeing any of it. The urge to do it won't be stopped so at least help them out.

(Please not that I have pretty much read none of this so sorry for repeats or randomness)

Dark_Delight · 09-14-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nellybell

Actually being easily influenced has a lot to do with what could go bad with a relationship. If you have a young, horny, teen who gets into this without knowing what to expect or how an actual relationship should be and how a master should act you leave open the door for an abusive relationship. Being more easily influenced than others they can be convinced that this is how a relationship is supposed to be, while it is actually just an abusive person pushing an uninformed stupid person into doing stupid things.

This of course is not the case with everyone but I have seen a few cases where girls are convinced that this is how it should be and put themselves through hell and come out with permanent damage. You may argue that its their own fault or whatever, but you can't really blame them if they were uninformed and basically have a disadvantage with thinking otherwise.

That can happen to anyone though underage or not. I don't have a lot against underage s/m as long as it is done with some common sense and both parties are well informed. It is far more important to educate underage users then try and stop them from seeing any of it. The urge to do it won't be stopped so at least help them out.

(Please not that I have pretty much read none of this so sorry for repeats or randomness)

That's a huge if. A far more likely scenario is they get a bad parent who tells them sex is wrong and screws them up and makes them repressed their whole life. Also the scenario I just mentioned would make the teen not know anything and being angry at their parents which would make them far more likely to get into a bad relationship like the one you described. So again I see that more as evidence to expose them to it if they are curious then to hide everything you can.

nellybell · 09-14-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

That's a huge if. A far more likely scenario is they get a bad parent who tells them sex is wrong and screws them up and makes them repressed their whole life. Also the scenario I just mentioned would make the teen not know anything and being angry at their parents which would make them far more likely to get into a bad relationship like the one you described. So again I see that more as evidence to expose them to it if they are curious then to hide everything you can.

In terms of sex, yes that does happen. However it really isn't that common as someone who is clueless of the lifestyle that gets scooped up by a stupid, self-proclaimed, master that has no concept of the effects it could have on their sub or simply don't care as long as they get what they want.

People don't willfully enter in a shitty relationship on here because they want to rebel, more they have no idea of what they are getting into. It could be possible that that repression could push them into this lifestyle as a way to rebel and be in something that they are drawl to but a kid that doesn't know about sex is going to go looking just for sex, they may just stumble across this as a side effect. Not directly related to. Not to mention, nowadays, but the age of 13 or 14 they know what sex is from friends and such. Even if they go to a private school.

So as it turns out, yours is more of an if than something that has occured and is likely occurring right now in several relationships.

I don't condone just letting them all willy nilly into a relationship without giving them a basic idea of what show happen and what to get away from if it does happen. Well informed and consensual relationships much better idea.

Dark_Delight · 09-14-2011, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nellybell

In terms of sex, yes that does happen. However it really isn't that common as someone who is clueless of the lifestyle that gets scooped up by a stupid, self-proclaimed, master that has no concept of the effects it could have on their sub or simply don't care as long as they get what they want.

People don't willfully enter in a shitty relationship on here because they want to rebel, more they have no idea of what they are getting into. It could be possible that that repression could push them into this lifestyle as a way to rebel and be in something that they are drawl to but a kid that doesn't know about sex is going to go looking just for sex, they may just stumble across this as a side effect. Not directly related to. Not to mention, nowadays, but the age of 13 or 14 they know what sex is from friends and such. Even if they go to a private school.

So as it turns out, yours is more of an if than something that has occured and is likely occurring right now in several relationships.

I don't condone just letting them all willy nilly into a relationship without giving them a basic idea of what show happen and what to get away from if it does happen. Well informed and consensual relationships much better idea.

As I already pointed out if their parents repress them they are FAR more likely to not know what they are getting into and the more ways you deny them the more dangerous approaches they take. So all your points just reinforce mine.

What do you mean that makes no sense just seems like you are trying to rationalize thinking I'm wrong when you are actually improving my points.

You people seem to not condoning them getting into a relationship at all but sooner or later they have to and the more in the dark you keep them the more dangerous it will be.

nellybell · 09-14-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

As I already pointed out if their parents repress them they are FAR more likely to not know what they are getting into and the more ways you deny them the more dangerous approaches they take. So all your points just reinforce mine.

What do you mean that makes no sense just seems like you are trying to rationalize thinking I'm wrong when you are actually improving my points.

You people seem to not condoning them getting into a relationship at all but sooner or later they have to and the more in the dark you keep them the more dangerous it will be.

But you are trying to say that they are directly related to kids not knowing this sort of thing. The thing is, NO ONE new exactly what they were getting into when they first found this stuff. No parent in their right mind would EVER explane this thing to their child. You keep pulling in something entirely unrelated to the topic and it just makes no sense.

Repressive parents cause kids to get into relationships with bad people in real life. When you first start s/m it is equal opportunity cluelessness. I knew what sex was and stuff long before I fond this site because my mom taught me, I still had no clue I was just a horny kid who found the site. No idea of what actually should or shouldn't be happening. Unless they have the sense to read up before, and 99% don't, you're going to get caught up with stuff you don't know. Then it all comes down to who you are as a person if you stay with the bad or go on and find the good. Now I don't rule out that having a non-repressive home life can effect that part of it, but it has nothing to do with getting into the original relationship. Even with good parents it mainly has a lot to do with you as a person. Highly subby people and insecure people are likely to stay in a relationship even if they are shit.

I have no issue with them in relationships, but you seem to not even care if it is a safe relationship which is where you will differ with many.

Dark_Delight · 09-14-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nellybell

But you are trying to say that they are directly related to kids not knowing this sort of thing. The thing is, NO ONE new exactly what they were getting into when they first found this stuff. No parent in their right mind would EVER explane this thing to their child. You keep pulling in something entirely unrelated to the topic and it just makes no sense.

Repressive parents cause kids to get into relationships with bad people in real life. When you first start s/m it is equal opportunity cluelessness. I knew what sex was and stuff long before I fond this site because my mom taught me, I still had no clue I was just a horny kid who found the site. No idea of what actually should or shouldn't be happening. Unless they have the sense to read up before, and 99% don't, you're going to get caught up with stuff you don't know. Then it all comes down to who you are as a person if you stay with the bad or go on and find the good. Now I don't rule out that having a non-repressive home life can effect that part of it, but it has nothing to do with getting into the original relationship. Even with good parents it mainly has a lot to do with you as a person. Highly subby people and insecure people are likely to stay in a relationship even if they are shit.

I have no issue with them in relationships, but you seem to not even care if it is a safe relationship which is where you will differ with many.

Who the hell said it had to parents. People on this site can let younger people know how to do things safely. Banning them all just makes them do it on their own and get into a potentially really dangerous situation.

You do realize that how your parents raise you helps make you who you are and again it's better for them to learn on this site then get themselves in a dangerous situation. Everyone the mods ban what you ban a teen for looking for sexual dares or whatever you risk them going somewhere more dangerous for what they are looking for.

It's not that I don't care if the relationship is safe I just see no difference between a teen and a 20-30 yo in that situation and this thread is about kids-teens.

nellybell · 09-14-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

Who the hell said it had to parents. People on this site can let younger people know how to do things safely. Banning them all just makes them do it on their own and get into a potentially really dangerous situation.

You do realize that how your parents raise you helps make you who you are and again it's better for them to learn on this site then get themselves in a dangerous situation. Everyone the mods ban what you ban a teen for looking for sexual dares or whatever you risk them going somewhere more dangerous for what they are looking for.

It's not that I don't care if the relationship is safe I just see no difference between a teen and a 20-30 yo in that situation and this thread is about kids-teens.

It isn't a choice I can make. If they advertise their age openly and then do s/m I don't have a choice because we could lose the site if people saw it. Then there would be no other option. If they are stupid enough to advertise age then they aren't mature enough to handle it then anyway.

And yes I do realize that how your parents raise you effects you, however you were saying it was absolutely related that if you have crap parents you end up in a dangerous relationship. It isn't like that, but I did mention that there was some relation on how you delt with bad relatiohships. And yes, I do know this is by far one of the safer places to start out on, but it isn't without a far amount of its own faults that can do just as much damage as anywhere else.

As for a difference in ages, I don't think there is a difference between 17 or 18 besides a little more life experiences. I do however thing there is a HUGE difference between 13 to 16-year-old and a 20-30-year-old. Like mentioned before younger teens are still developing and easily influenced which makes them more vulnerable than an older person. Also, that older person has had a fair amount more of life experience that has hopefully taught them what horrible people are like and have the sense not to put up with it.

The main difference that I see is the ability for an older person to see a bad situation and get out before something bad and permanent happen to them. There is of course no guarantee no matter the age. Some younger will be able to to this better than some older and some younger will not be able to avoid this, same for some adults. Just seems to happen to younger more often. The 18+ rule exists and is enforced for legal reasons, obviously there are laws about kids and sexual things.

Dark_Delight · 09-14-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nellybell

It isn't a choice I can make. If they advertise their age openly and then do s/m I don't have a choice because we could lose the site if people saw it. Then there would be no other option. If they are stupid enough to advertise age then they aren't mature enough to handle it then anyway.

And yes I do realize that how your parents raise you effects you, however you were saying it was absolutely related that if you have crap parents you end up in a dangerous relationship. It isn't like that, but I did mention that there was some relation on how you delt with bad relatiohships. And yes, I do know this is by far one of the safer places to start out on, but it isn't without a far amount of its own faults that can do just as much damage as anywhere else.

As for a difference in ages, I don't think there is a difference between 17 or 18 besides a little more life experiences. I do however thing there is a HUGE difference between 13 to 16-year-old and a 20-30-year-old. Like mentioned before younger teens are still developing and easily influenced which makes them more vulnerable than an older person. Also, that older person has had a fair amount more of life experience that has hopefully taught them what horrible people are like and have the sense not to put up with it.

The main difference that I see is the ability for an older person to see a bad situation and get out before something bad and permanent happen to them. There is of course no guarantee no matter the age. Some younger will be able to to this better than some older and some younger will not be able to avoid this, same for some adults. Just seems to happen to younger more often. The 18+ rule exists and is enforced for legal reasons, obviously there are laws about kids and sexual things.

I don't see how s/m is any different then anything else in that regard though. Older people often take advantage of younger people it's not something that is limited to s/m or even sex. S/M isn't even the most dangerous way they do. So what I guess I'm saying is if the kids are roughly the same age as each other I don't see any issues with it and no1 here has made any valid points to why it would so horrible.

Invisible · 09-14-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

I don't see how s/m is any different then anything else in that regard though. Older people often take advantage of younger people it's not something that is limited to s/m or even sex. S/M isn't even the most dangerous way they do. So what I guess I'm saying is if the kids are roughly the same age as each other I don't see any issues with it and no1 here has made any valid points to why it would so horrible.

That is because you are completely unable to see anything that isn't from your own perspective or supports your point of view.

The thread started with some very broad ideas and rationale as to why underage s/m is a bad idea. This has been supported by a number of people, very bravely, sharing their stories which support the broader principles. Scientific evidence has been produced that shows that teenage brains are different than adult brains leading to different vulnerabilities. Finally, you have had some of the legal realities facing the site explained to you. If none of these are valid points I don't know what is.

I would say that most contributors to the thread have made valid and constructive points. I have just re-read the thread and I am astounded at how rude and obnoxious you have been. You have gone out of your way to insult just about every contributor who disagrees with you view.

Dark_Delight · 09-14-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invisible

That is because you are completely unable to see anything that isn't from your own perspective or supports your point of view.

The thread started with some very broad ideas and rationale as to why underage s/m is a bad idea. This has been supported by a number of people, very bravely, sharing their stories which support the broader principles. Scientific evidence has been produced that shows that teenage brains are different than adult brains leading to different vulnerabilities. Finally, you have had some of the legal realities facing the site explained to you. If none of these are valid points I don't know what is.

I would say that most contributors to the thread have made valid and constructive points. I have just re-read the thread and I am astounded at how rude and obnoxious you have been. You have gone out of your way to insult just about every contributor who disagrees with you view.

Dude I already addressed and tore apart all those points you are talking about dressing them up with pretty talk doesn't change that. Also instead of actually addressing my points you just attack me and pretend like the points I already addressed are still valid it's pathetic.

nellybell · 09-14-2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

I don't see how s/m is any different then anything else in that regard though. Older people often take advantage of younger people it's not something that is limited to s/m or even sex. S/M isn't even the most dangerous way they do. So what I guess I'm saying is if the kids are roughly the same age as each other I don't see any issues with it and no1 here has made any valid points to why it would so horrible.

Its different because s/m relationships involve a shit load more trust. It is a gf/bf relationship sort of dynamic but then is vastly expanded upon. You have to be able to pick out who is worthy of that trust and how fast to give said trust. Younger people don't usually have anywhere near enough experience with people to pick out the bad apples compounded on the fact that they are just starting out and are clueless on relationship. It makes me question the type of knowledge you have if you don't understand what sort of difference there is between an s/m relationship and any other sort.

Also, putting two completely ignorant children together is just ASKING for someone to get hurt. They don't come anywhere near understanding the consequences of what could happen if they do "x and y" A new master of lets say... 16? Would not have the foggiest idea that something could go bad if they had the girl... do let's say 5 enemas in a row. It sounds s/mie and lots of times would be a good punishment right? But what he doesn't know likely is that that could kill her. Most of the time they will not take the time to figure out that that is dangerous and they haven't been around long enough to have heard of it.

I'm not sure what other type of reason you need besides they will just burst into flames if they do? You have been given plenty of valid reasons, you just seem to think there is no differences between when you were 13 and how you are now. Do you feel like you are as mature as you are now? Because most people would say they are no comparison between how they are now and then. What all of this really comes down to, what determines whether you can handle this lifestyle at a young age is your maturity level. A lot of young people don't have it and it is so necessary whether you would like to think it or not.

Dark_Delight · 09-14-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nellybell

Its different because s/m relationships involve a shit load more trust. It is a gf/bf relationship sort of dynamic but then is vastly expanded upon. You have to be able to pick out who is worthy of that trust and how fast to give said trust. Younger people don't usually have anywhere near enough experience with people to pick out the bad apples compounded on the fact that they are just starting out and are clueless on relationship. It makes me question the type of knowledge you have if you don't understand what sort of difference there is between an s/m relationship and any other sort.

Also, putting two completely ignorant children together is just ASKING for someone to get hurt. They don't come anywhere near understanding the consequences of what could happen if they do "x and y" A new master of lets say... 16? Would not have the foggiest idea that something could go bad if they had the girl... do let's say 5 enemas in a row. It sounds s/mie and lots of times would be a good punishment right? But what he doesn't know likely is that that could kill her. Most of the time they will not take the time to figure out that that is dangerous and they haven't been around long enough to have heard of it.

I'm not sure what other type of reason you need besides they will just burst into flames if they do? You have been given plenty of valid reasons, you just seem to think there is no differences between when you were 13 and how you are now. Do you feel like you are as mature as you are now? Because most people would say they are no comparison between how they are now and then. What all of this really comes down to, what determines whether you can handle this lifestyle at a young age is your maturity level. A lot of young people don't have it and it is so necessary whether you would like to think it or not.

You are jumping to finally the stage. That much trust isn't needed until you get into the really hardcore stuff. A little feet worship, spanking or roleplay doesn't take that much stuff. Also it's impossible for even adults to build that kind of trust in a few dates and they obviously practice it some without that much trust so I question how much you understand.

Again jumping to one of the more extremes and I've been saying we should stop forcing them to be ignorant as they will get together and do stuff they want to do whether you try and stop it or not so putting them more in the dark just hurts them I have repeated this point atleast twice already.

You seriously just don't get it. People don't magically jump to the most extreme thing and if you force them to wait till they are 18 to even take the first steps you screw them the fuck up.

nellybell · 09-14-2011, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

You are jumping to finally the stage. That much trust isn't needed until you get into the really hardcore stuff. A little feet worship, spanking or roleplay doesn't take that much stuff. Also it's impossible for even adults to build that kind of trust in a few dates and they obviously practice it some without that much trust so I question how much you understand.

Again jumping to one of the more extremes and I've been saying we should stop forcing them to be ignorant as they will get together and do stuff they want to do whether you try and stop it or not so putting them more in the dark just hurts them I have repeated this point atleast twice already.

You seriously just don't get it. People don't magically jump to the most extreme thing and if you force them to wait till they are 18 to even take the first steps you screw them the fuck up.

Yes, and I'm talking about the worse case scenarios. I, by no means, think that everything goes in this fasion. There are people on here that pull subs into intense situations and because they are young and inexperienced they end up doing stuff they aren't ready for and there isn't proper trust between them. While most sane people don't hop into the most extreme thing, there are those that do. Those are the ones that make this an issue.

I know very well that there are underage relationships that can go perfectly, I was ion one of them. However, I also know how horribly badly they can go. You seem to miss that part over and over.

I in no way want them to be ignorant, that would be retarded of me as that is the root of all the things that go wrong on here. However, I'm not advocating that they hop into a relationship blindly which is what happens all the time and how people get hurt. You seem to advocate hands on learning but that will backfire in your face when the wrong people get matched up if there isn't at least a little before hand knowledge.

Also, I'm not sure what you're questioning about what I know, for the dating thing, you don't need nearly as much trust to go out on a date with someone as you do in a play session. Under normal circumstances you are not putting your life in possible danger when you go on a date. Not sure where you were going with that.

I'm not trying to put them in the dark, I don't have much of a choice in the matter though. As for trying to stop them from having relationships, I know they're going to do it anyway, but if you can stop and educate at least some of them then you won't have some many fuck ups. You just want to let them go out blindly as is, which leaves room for assholes.

yours_slave · 09-14-2011, 11:00 PM

Some may think that I wrote this thread originally without a preparation. No. It's wrong. I never write a thread without preparing myself for it. The reason why I haven't posted my opinions furthermore is already metioned by Maggy. Anyway as this discussion is going again in polite manner, I thought of replying. Otherwise you will think I back off or I don't have any valid reasons. I have valid reasons for what I have write.

And I'm not going to tell anything about the rudeness of people anymore. Nice people understand why it's not good to be rude, so that's enough. This is internet. YAY! Be rude as much as you want! You will get the damage of being rude than others.

And seriously people, where in my original thread have I put the limit is 18 or 16 or whatever?

@Aivey: Just because you got a nice master, we cannot expect every one will get a master like you. Can we? You are LUCKY and that's another case. That does not say everyone one is lucky as you to get a good master and everyone should seek masters/slaves even before they are blossoming fully. Can you imagine what will happen if you have find a completely asshole as your master? Were you capable of overcoming the situation? May be you can because you knew the laws and you were intelligent even at that age. But dear we cannot expect every kid is like that. And yeah. I agree with all of you saying there are dumb mature people out there. That's why I have mentioned that in my original post saying I'm talking about "GENERALLY".

Quote:

There are some children who are responsible and educated than adults. But I’m talking generally.

That's what I have mentioned in my original post.

Loman · 09-15-2011, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yours_slave

@Aivey: Just because you got a nice master, we cannot expect every one will get a master like you. Can we? You are LUCKY and that's another case. That does not say everyone one is lucky as you to get a good master and everyone should seek masters/slaves even before they are blossoming fully. Can you imagine what will happen if you have find a completely asshole as your master? Were you capable of overcoming the situation? May be you can because you knew the laws and you were intelligent even at that age. But dear we cannot expect every kid is like that. And yeah. I agree with all of you saying there are dumb mature people out there. That's why I have mentioned that in my original post saying I'm talking about "GENERALLY".

yours_slave.
Aivey has been with someone in the past who almost destroyed her. 'Asshole' wasn't the word. A lot of people on this site recognised what was happening and was powerless to do anything about it.
She might be okay now, but there was a time that she wasn't and everyone feared for her.
As for overcoming the situation, it has been a long, hard process. But we have worked together for 10 months now. I'll tell you. It still isn't sorted. Not entirely.
Trust me when I tell you that Aivey knows exactly how lucky she is (and this isn't me jumping around saying 'hey I'm a great dom!') It is more like, after him, almost anything can be an improvement.
I do my best to do what is right for her, and in this case, yes. She is lucky.
It has not always been that way.

You make valid points though.
Ivy has recovered / is recovering due to support from friends and from myself.
Alone, it would take longer, but she is strong enough to manage.
Not everyone has the support, nor the self-worth to make it through.