Dominant / Submissive Trust system

[carom]

While the idea sounds good on paper i see some major flaws, especially in a open internet situation.

To name a few

- How do you want to test the reliability of what people say?

- How do you want to try to determine who is abusive or not? Waiting for people to be abused to tell you?

- What is abusive? People are different and their needs are different. I still need to see 2 people that don't have a different opinion on that. What one person sees as abusive is the optimal situation for the next.
I find blackmail as highly abusive and against my honer and spoke to way to many people that got blackmailed to change my mind about it, but others search it.

You don't need to make blacklists but to teach the people to think for themselves.
Find reliable people that are there openly to help and answer questions, that teach people Patience, that teach people to find themselves, that show a good example, instead of a questionable, inaccurate blacklist

"Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime"

[Ranzid]

working out if someone is reliable is one of the toughest things around , and the system wont be pefect , but having people who have been doms/subs for a long time with alot of experience mean they can spot certain character traits and ways of thinking that would indicate a problem or indicated a good dom/sub.

As per the abusive thing , initially talking to someone can give you alot of information , for instance if they non-jokeingly talk about going over a subs limits as a standard practice knowing that the subs limits were hard.. thats a sure fire indicator , the mis-match or misunderstand of likes/dislikes and limits is part of the learning proccess between a sub and a dom so at some point the sub will be told to do something they realy dont want to do .. this should be where safe words and communication come in.

if there was a questionnaire you could fill out to say if you were reliable or ..not so good it would be very nice and easy but we all know you cant judge someone like that, thats why a collective that has years of experience coupled with a community of people who help each other in my mind is the best way to keep people safe.

again if anyone has ideas on how to improve this please say so as that why it was put up , not as a "this is what will happen" more as " can you improve this to make it viable" thing.

[carom]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

again if anyone has ideas on how to improve this please say so as that why it was put up , not as a "this is what will happen" more as " can you improve this to make it viable" thing.

Get the reliable people together. Tell everyone that if they are unsure they can ask them.
Forget about sorting people in subclasses.

Helping were help is needed. Giving advice to people that want it.

Relationships are to complex and individual and dependent on the people involved to do what you want.

Especially online and especially with 90% people that don't know what they do and are experimenting, like on the site

I think i understand what you want and agree with it in theory but in pratice you will end up with a unreliable and maybe even biased system. That may even give the people you fear a form of credibility just because they passed.

Teach people to think for themselves, teach submissives that they have rights and that they dont need to swallow everything. Teach dominants to be themselves, and not some asshole, to be dominant. Be a good example.

[LadyCeleste]

I think you have a solid idea here, but like everyone else said, the details need to be ironed out. The thing that you also have to consider is whether or not people are able to move up or down in rank?

Certainly, I have a lot of information that I give out due to my radio show and the advice thread I have, but because I'm currently not practicing, does that exclude me from the gold section or would that put me in the silver section? How would the people be chosen for the ranks? Some of us may feel we are more qualified for the gold section whereas we may be better off in the silver section.

While the idea is great in theory, I think I like what carom said where you just group the helpful people together and let them answer the questions. That's why people such as myself, Star Shadows, Anjelen, Honeyness, Nellybell, and several others do what we do to help people.

Here is a more concise list I've put together:

• How are people going to be chosen?
• What criteria must be met to be able to be selected for the Gold, Silver, and Bronze?
• Are people able to move up or down in rank?
• How do we know that those whom have been selected to be in the Gold section are trustworthy enough to be up there?
• If there is a problem, how is it travelled through the ranks?
• Who will be selecting those who go into what rank?
• If someone becomes inactive on the site, do they lose their ability to participate in this group?

[Ranzid]

The response has been great , but the key issues still seem to be how to choose who gets what badge and who would be at the top (gold level)

from what im getting here it seems that whole concept of having bronze/silver/gold may be to divisive and become more of a popularity contest than an actual help.

so , what about having just 1 level .. a trusted badge , people given this badge would need a minimum of 10 members of the site (not n00bs) to endorse them, this way whole community gets to choose if they should have the badge or not.

Problems that stem from the badge system or reasons to remove someone's badge would be escalated up to the mod system on the boards (if they are willing to take on the extra load)


while the badge may help with normal sub/dom relationships by giving extra info etc at some point , the main aim from my point of view was keeping newcomers safe , especially new subs.

so what does everyone think about the new idea?

[WowwieGoesWoof]

i like this idea. just like some forums have a credibility bar that increases in amount / color of small bricks to show how trusted or devoted you are this might help weed out creeps or fakes and sort the legits out from the masses ^.^

[SubBabyDoll]

Very interesting idea, I enjoyed reading it. When I first became a submissive it was against my will and more abuse than a sub/Dom thing but that relationship was present and eventually my Dom self was broken and I submitted. Because it was against my will I wasn't happy I felt like I lost all control and as a Dom that's an excruciating feeling. I fled and truly believed I'd NEVER have anything to do with the lifestyle again....but I began to crave it. I was lucky enough to fall back into it with a loving Dom/mentor and realize I could have freedom. Some don't ever get that chance..or even the chance to crave it; it's totally sucked out of them. This idea may help prevent so many of the problems there can be.

[Id.]

Originally Posted by Ranzid

so , what about having just 1 level .. a trusted badge , people given this badge would need a minimum of 10 members of the site (not n00bs) to endorse them, this way whole community gets to choose if they should have the badge or not.

I'm very much in favor of the intentions here, but I still think too many people will be excluded. How many people on getDare have been around long enough and interacted with enough members to get 10 non-newbie endorsements? And what will the criteria be for endorsements? Would the endorsements come from people who have had a slave/master interaction with the individual they are endorsing? Or will endorsements be given to friends they have only made in the chatroom or lounge sections?

I don't know man, I like this but I think that 95% or more the members will still be relying on the existing site metrics and the ads themselves to gauge someone's reputation and sincerity.

[nellybell]

Ok, so if the main thing you're looking for is to protect new subs than you're going to have to go about it in a different way. As any girl will tell you, there are a ton of people that message you to be a dom or sub for them right off the bat. Before they even get a chance to go out and look at the forums much they are pestered about it. Many newbies jump right on the first person that offers without knowing what they are really getting into and sometimes that can lead to disaster.

Having a team that messages the new people right off the bat and try to talk to them about it could help out a bit. If they know what they're doing they can possibly better avoid the super creeps out there. Unfortunetly, though, as I have found, usually new people really don't have any care to learn about these things before they start. They just know they're horny and want to do something about it. Damn what could happen because of it.

There was a guy in chat last night who admited to being new to all of this and asked if people could fill him in because he wanted to try having a sub. Without waiting to learn anything though went straight into asking for a slave and went about pestering girls in chat, one of them being 14 no less, and refused to listen to what anyone else had to say about it. I fear that this could be a common problem with this sort of thing, they won't really care until it is too late.

While any sort of badge system will help for regulars, I fear that it will do little to help the new people around here. They imply won't know what it really means or go looking for it over anyone else that shows up and tries to get them.

[Ranzid]

ID. this isnt a replacement for the site its designed to augment the system. also its easy to get an endorsement .. simply get to know people , i havnt been here that long an i know at least 10 senior members , the idea for the badge is that you are part of the community .. if you cant get 10 people to say you not a complete phycho then you realy need to look at yourself.

Also I realise that you want a much more defined criteria but by adding more rigid rules it makes the system more divisive and exclusive , whereas having 10 people say your a good person means that you have had to pass at least 10 peoples moral standards.

what im trying to say is that if i said there were 10 things that were need to be forfilled to get a badge , there would then be a huge debate on the 10 things .. and if they were fair and how they would be implemented.

nellybell

Having an email/pm thing as soon as you join with information and where to get it shouldnt be to hard to implement (but thats for the admins to sort)

and yes this system isnt perfect , and yes some people will ignore it .. but there is no system that could protect people like that short of cutting off their internet connection, you help who you can when you can.

[nellybell]

For the endorsement system, You have to remember that a little exclusivness to it isn't a bad thing in this case. By giving someone an ok you are for sure saying this person is safe and worthy of trust. Online that is a very hard thing to garuntee. You give some psyco a good title then you open the possiblity for someone to get very hurt.

The only time that it becomes a bad thing is when it turns into a popularity thing, though in a way, thats what this entire thing is.

As for the automatic PM, I think there might already be something of the sort in place, but obviously isn't doing enough at this point. What I was more getting at was that people actually personally pm the new people. You can't ask questions and get answers from an automatic system like that, it can only give you basics and you just have to hope that they pay any sort of attention to it.

Unfortunetly, this whole thing just seems to be getting more and more complicated, and while that can do attitude can do a lot for you, it isn't always going to help. This may be one of those times ._.

[Id.]

Originally Posted by nellybell

Ok, so if the main thing you're looking for is to protect new subs than you're going to have to go about it in a different way. As any girl will tell you, there are a ton of people that message you to be a dom or sub for them right off the bat.

Unfortunetly, though, as I have found, usually new people really don't have any care to learn about these things before they start. They just know they're horny and want to do something about it. Damn what could happen because of it.

Originally Posted by Ranzid

ID. this isnt a replacement for the site its designed to augment the system. also its easy to get an endorsement .. simply get to know people , i havnt been here that long an i know at least 10 senior members , the idea for the badge is that you are part of the community .. if you cant get 10 people to say you not a complete phycho then you realy need to look at yourself.

I think what I am trying to say is that the reputations people earn through posts, friends, visitor messages, etc. already serve as a sort of endorsement, since they engaged in all of that positive interaction without getting banned. Adding an extra merit system for those who have been endorsed is fine, but I think Nellybell hit on the main point that these people are not usually the ones who end up being abusive subs or doms anyway. Perhaps restricting the activities of brand new members would be a more effective way of weeding out at least some of the negative experiences?

For example, members could be prevented from posting in the slave/master section until their accounts are at least so many days old. This would block those people who just post ads hoping to get someone nude on cam one night when they randomly find the site. Or require that they have so many posts, or so many friends (basically like endorsements), before entering the chat. These kinds of measures already exist within the system. Plus it would not take a very high standard to block a lot of the negative activity.

[bondage]

Sounds great and it would make me feel more comfortable

[carom]

Originally Posted by bondage

Sounds great and it would make me feel more comfortable

That exactly is a problem.
You need to learn to be careful and watch out for yourself and not to feel safe just because of a good reputation that is in most cases questionable in an environment where all are incognito.


1st
I will take me as an example as I am blank. You don't know me and have zero information of who i am.

-You may see my age that can be to high or to low.

-You see my gender that can be false.

-I can tell you that i have zero experience or that i was raised by a dom/domme couple with 20 subs in their household and learned everything about being a good dominant since i was 10. Both stories are equally valid from your point of view in the way that you cant tell.

- I could be an admin of the site, a searched rapist, a cop or a nice and normal guy and you have no way to tell

The point is that you can tell any of that from almost no one here, no matter how good known they are.
You may be able to make a better guess, after some time and some reading what they say, but it will still be a guess in most cases.

2nd
Lets assume you find a way around my 1st problem, for arguments sake.
Now you want to make a reputation system where you order people in a trustworthy - untrustworthy way,

So to start you need your trustworthy group of experienced people that know what they talk about to start with. Even if i forget about the possibility that they are lying you may come down to maybe 10 people on the site that may be up to that job in the way of age/experience and 2 or 3 of them are active

3rd
On what will you base the reputation? on what someone is saying?

I agree you may filter out the worst idiots that are clearly talking shit but they should disqualify themselves anyway in a short time. But beside of that people can tell one thing and do the other.

So you are down to sort by what people say about the person.
Let us again assume you crossed my first 2 problems somehow, you have now the possibility that one of the people that are trustworthy has 1st hand experience with the person. Then the sorting is comparable "easy".
But in most cases that will not be the case but you will have to rely on people you don't really know.

So lets assume Someone tells you that i am the greatest dom she ever had and that i am honorable and absolute trustworthy.
This could mean
- I am really like that
- I am not really that great the girl just doesn't know it better (after all 95% on the site are beginners)
- I am very popular
- I blackmailed her to tell you that
- I am her

Or the other way around
She tells you i abused her
this could mean
- i really did that
- she is overreacting because of something minor
- she misunderstood something
- she is angry at me and lies to hit me
- she herself is abusive

You cant tell, I have dealt with enough situations like that to say so . Even in rl it is hard to tell and there you have a lot more information about the people involved.

[Ranzid]

Originally Posted by Id.

Adding an extra merit system for those who have been endorsed is fine, but I think Nellybell hit on the main point that these people are not usually the ones who end up being abusive subs or doms anyway. Perhaps restricting the activities of brand new members would be a more effective way of weeding out at least some of the negative experiences?

this proves my point exactly , if those with the endorsement are trusted members then the new people know who to trust.

restricting new members may be an idea but we need to encourage users not exclude them completely ..its worth thinking about.

and nellybell the system is less complex now than it has been:


Current Proposed System:

Members who wish to have a Trusted badge will have a minimum of 10 endorsements from senior members who believe they are trustworthy and contribute to the community.

New members will be encouraged to talk / engage with badge holders.

Badge holders will be expected to assist new members interested in the scene.


taadaaa