Can you be both slave and submissive?

[MysticalMadness]

Hey all, I am looking to get some opinions on a topic.

Can someone be on a spectrum of submissive to slave? I have some friends in TOG that say that you can either be a slave OR you can be a submissive. You cannot be somewhere in between. Thoughts?

For me, I do view it as a spectrum and kind of a result of whomever I am with. If I am with a Master, I will be a slave. If I am with a Dominant, I will be a submissive. If I am with a Top, I will be a bottom. It feels like more of a dance than a defining role at this point in my life.

[RiskyFlame]

I'm not even sure what the exact definition is of a slave and a submissive. They seem to differ between communities and quite a few people misuse the terms which doesn't help either. But in the end, slave and submissive are terms/labels to help people out with quickly explaining what/who they are. As long as the labels help you out in conversations, I don't think it matters whether you can just be a predefined label or anywhere in between them.

But to answer the question, I agree with Wikipedia's terminology of a slave. "In BDSM, a slave is a specific type of submissive. Not all submissives are slaves, though all slaves would normally be considered submissive in the relationship." (source) Submissives can range between being mildly to strongly submissive and eventually you are at a point in submissiveness where you are considered a slave. This point usually lies at 24/7 TPE and deeply committed relationships that may include living-in with the dominant (labelled as master). Experience also plays a role I think. So I see it as a spectrum.

However, I don't agree with picking your submissive label based on the label of the dominant. Calling yourself a slave just because the dominant calls himself a master is bad if you're not a slave according to the general standard. The same applies to dominant people: only call yourself a master if you have experience with 24/7 TPE and deeply committed D/s relationships (and if you're knowledgeable). The label helps other people identify you so wrongly labelling yourself may lead to misconceptions.

I hope this makes sense and I'm curious to see the opinions of other people.

[MysticalMadness]

I didn't mean that I call myself one thing just because a d-type calls themselves the equivalent. Its more based on the dynamic I have with another person, if that makes sense? If I am with a Master and we have an M/s dynamic, then I am a slave. It goes back to my "label" being on a spectrum and fluid. Maybe I'm just weird?

[Trebaldin]

I'd like to share a thaught or two.

The first thing i wanted to talk about is 'definitions', though some people might have a definition on particular roles, for me it all comes down to what you and your partner agreed on and what you two are comfortable with.

For example:
I don't like to be called Master, just because i don't like the sounding of it. Also i think that i'm far from perfect and therefore shouldn't be called Master, since a Master, for me, is soneone who 'mastered their craft'.

I also would like to share a similar thought about slave/sub/bottom, though i need to exclude bottom, since i don't have any knowledge nor opinion on that one.
A submissive, in my mind, has the right to decide with their Dom/me what's happening, whereas a slave consented into acting and being acted upon whatever the D-type decides will happen. Might be wrong nonetheless.

I do prefer to speak of D-types and s/sub-type. Then everyone may decide what they'd like to be called and what they want to do to and with each other.

Disclaimer: That's only one and only my viewpoint and opinion, please don't feel offended and share your thoughts also, fellow reader. We all may learn from each other if everyone says a thing or two.

stay safe and healthy everyone

[ThatKinkyBrit]

I think this is a really interesting discussion and one I love to have with my scene friends or partners.

Like the people above have said, these are my own personal opinions and not fact.

Personally I see submission as a kind of sliding scale. There are no fit definitions for all the roles out there, and It really comes down to personal interpretation. For example, someone might associate certain behaviours with a submissive and as such call themselves one, while another might associate that with being a slave and as such call themselves a slave, as well as vice versa.

This applies to the dominant side as well. Some might consider the more caregiving nature of a dominant as qualities belonging to a daddy, while others would state that It emcompases their role as a master.

Personally I find myself, I guess you'd call it adaptable. Depending who I am with my style of dominance can shift. If im with someone that likes soft domming and praise, I shift into a more traditional "daddy" role. Other times I might be with someone that loves to be treated with contempt and abused. Someone that outside of their hard limits wants to be shown no respect, as such I'd shift to a more "Master" type role.

I guess what I am saying is you make your own distinctions about what you class yourself as and why, and never let anyone tell you you are wrong

[Wolf007]

I do agree with person above.
Also do i share the same ideas with Trebaldin about the whole being called "master" deal.

But anyway, what i wanted to add from a personal point of view; in my opinion a real slave has no choice of his or hers life being a slave.
A real slave isn't even necessarily submissive as there is nothing voluntary about it. Such people used to be owned by certain people as their property and could even decide about their life or death without consequences (by law or other).

The word slave is used frequently on this forum, but obviously it serves more of a ceremonial meaning. No one here is going to be literally anyone's slave...

I'd say we speak about submission and its many different forms.

Just an opinion of a halfwit.