What it means to be a master...(debate)

[keykitty]

My biggest thing too are submissives being complete liars >.> I know we are talking about masters but I find that submissives and masters who both think that the whole idea of "no limits" is possible should burn in the living pits of D/s (M/s) hell. If there is anything that bugs me it is that. As for the Master side, do not ever forget that you have a real breathing person that you are in charge of. This means you are in charge of their health (so know your stuff before going into heavy things especially rigging, asphyxiation etc), their mind (do not mind fuck them so badly they need mental treatment) and their soul.

As for online interactions, it is so easy to just cut someone loose in this world. Masters/Doms I must say I feel bad for you when someone purposefully blocks you on MSN for a seemingly no good reason and without warning. However if this happens often you need to sort of ask yourself "What is it I may be doing wrong? Am I not fulfilling their needs? Am I uninteresting?" etc. When it comes to online sometimes you really need to watch out more than anything.

When it comes to pictures, do not pressure your sub to give them to you. I am right now in a bad situation when it comes to pictures at the moment (I had them on a USB and school girls took it and showed everyone) so if anyone understands about pictures and what they can do it is me. If a sub doesn't want those pictures it can be for many reasons even without having anything to do with you. If I knew these pictures would have come into the hands of someone else I certainly wouldn't have taken them in the first place even though I trusted my Dom at the time and he is in no way responsible for what has occurred. Just be extremely careful where you have your pictures and the idea of 'face value'. DO NOT POST/GIVE PICTURES WITH YOUR FACE IF YOU CAN AS IT IS THE EASIEST WAY TO BE IDENTIFIED. Trust me I now officially know the consequences of such in the wrong hands.

*I apologize for clearly not being in the right state to post this all in but I hope it is remotely useful.*

[LadyCeleste]

Originally Posted by keykitty

My biggest thing too are submissives being complete liars >.>

Can you give an example of this? I've found my submissives to be very trustworthy and that's because I am honest with them up front and I don't lie to them. Trust begets trust. Honesty begets Honesty.

I know we are talking about masters but I find that submissives and masters who both think that the whole idea of "no limits" is possible should burn in the living pits of D/s (M/s) hell.

I can understand your position here, but isn't that a bit harsh? Some people say "no limits" to attract people but then outlay it later with the one they choose to trust.

If there is anything that bugs me it is that. As for the Master side, do not ever forget that you have a real breathing person that you are in charge of. This means you are in charge of their health (so know your stuff before going into heavy things especially rigging, asphyxiation etc), their mind (do not mind fuck them so badly they need mental treatment) and their soul.

Thank you for this. This is very true and needs to be reiterated again and again.

When it comes to pictures, do not pressure your sub to give them to you.

Absolutely true.

DO NOT POST/GIVE PICTURES WITH YOUR FACE IF YOU CAN AS IT IS THE EASIEST WAY TO BE IDENTIFIED.

I tend to disagree here. It is the whole trust value bit. Trust begets trust and honestly, if you trust someone, this shouldn't be an issue. Some of my submissives have given me photos and after I view them, I delete them. I, in no way, have ever considered redistributing the photos nor will I ever. Especially compromising photos. That is severely wrong and it not only damages the submissive but it also damages the credibility of the dom as well.

[shhhh]

This is great. I'm not a damaged sub, and would never become one (I know what to look for), but I appreciate what you guys are saying. Someone who acts like that just goes against all my instincts.

I was considering applying to one of you to be a sub, but I'd rather you take care of those who need it.

On a side note, you guys seem like you'd have good ideas for this (not a dare request):
http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=71209

[carom]

Originally Posted by keykitty

I know we are talking about masters but I find that submissives and masters who both think that the whole idea of "no limits" is possible should burn in the living pits of D/s (M/s) hell. If there is anything that bugs me it is that. As for the Master side, do not ever forget that you have a real breathing person that you are in charge of. This means you are in charge of their health (so know your stuff before going into heavy things especially rigging, asphyxiation etc), their mind (do not mind fuck them so badly they need mental treatment) and their soul.

There are 2 ways to look at "no limit" One is the way you use it and then you are right. The other one is a bit different and posible, with the right couple at least.

This 2nd way to "no limits" is more a giving up limits. Giving away the limits to the Dominant. That doesnt mean there are no limits, but that the what a limit is is not in your control anymore. This kind of relationship is posible but requieres a lot.
You really need to know eachother, you need a dom that has a good common sense and that needs to watch out what he is doing. In some way all the points you said. You really need to know eachother for years and that is sure nothing for everyone.
To start a relationship like that is crazy.

[MasterPain]

saying "no limits" is saying a lie.. compleatly and totaly...
everyone has limits; limits put appon us by our bodies, and our social interactions and out legal system.

if you have "no limits" you would blindly follow everything to the point of causing harm to yourself or even death.

normaly i spook the "no limit" people off by saying "first of all i want you to have unprotected sex with your father or brother, then i want you to give each teacher/boss/employee photos of you having sex with a poney, then i require you to cut off your left brest and sew the wound shut. i require photo or cam evidence of this all happening." the standard reply to that is "fuck you" to which i reply "then you have limits, fuck off" and i block them


for the rest of these post.. i do beleve that a master such as i am is truely the submissive one in the relationship.. sure all the attention of the slave is to please the master but without the slave the master has no right what so ever to be called MASTER. i put my limits aside, i focus my attention to my submissive to ensure she gets the enjoyment she needs from this relationship.. because we all know the truth... no matter how many freedoms we take away, we cant take away the freedom to say "fuck it im out of here"

the master should be compleatly knowlageable in everything he preposes the slave to do. PERIOD... you should do research on the subject and even test the activity on himself first to see how he reacts to the situation.

many many times i have hit myself with diffrent objects to see how they would feel before they touched my slaves skin.

masters words to live by: SANE, safe, respect, and honor.

[Star Shadows]

Originally Posted by MasterPain

saying "no limits" is saying a lie.. compleatly and totaly...
everyone has limits; limits put appon us by our bodies, and our social interactions and out legal system.

if you have "no limits" you would blindly follow everything to the point of causing harm to yourself or even death.

normaly i spook the "no limit" people off by saying "first of all i want you to have unprotected sex with your father or brother, then i want you to give each teacher/boss/employee photos of you having sex with a poney, then i require you to cut off your left brest and sew the wound shut. i require photo or cam evidence of this all happening." the standard reply to that is "fuck you" to which i reply "then you have limits, fuck off" and i block them

So you would feel that people who say no limits as they do not know or understand their limits enough to post them are also lying? Just a thought. I know some people like that- even if no limits is not the best way of wording it.

[carom]

Originally Posted by MasterPain

saying "no limits" is saying a lie..

It really depends on what you see as "no limit".
As i said. it is not about not having limits but about trusting the other one to keep you in them and know what you can and can't do. It is about who controlls them not about if they are there.
For a situation like here on the site it is stupid and dangerous, i agree there.

[MasterPain]

no.... but saying "no limits" should be worded diffrently

it should be worded "i have very little experence in (m/s or bdsm) please help me find them, and if you do find something i dont want to do please respect me enough that i can add them as a limit"

and yes master should know his slaves limits off the back of his hand, gage ones he percives are soft flexable limits. when you are deep into a relationship what you are saying goes on naturaly, they dont need to be explained on every sceen.

im talking about "no-limit" ads that pop up from time to time or in chat.... "i have no-limits give me dares..."

[Star Shadows]

Originally Posted by MasterPain

no.... but saying "no limits" should be worded diffrently

it should be worded "i have very little experence in (m/s or bdsm) please help me find them, and if you do find something i dont want to do please respect me enough that i can add them as a limit"

and yes master should know his slaves limits off the back of his hand, gage ones he percives are soft flexable limits. when you are deep into a relationship what you are saying goes on naturaly, they dont need to be explained on every sceen.

im talking about "no-limit" ads that pop up from time to time or in chat.... "i have no-limits give me dares..."

ya i see where you are coming from. Was just curious is all. Some of them are quite clearly lying or trying to get attention, its good to guide the ones who aren't though.

[MasterPain]

when in a relationship hard and soft limits should be known and unsaid as like how one likes their eggs cooked, or if you prefer ketchup or serup over french toast. (im in the mids of cooking breakfast right now bare with me)

chrunchy or hard bacon... lol

but ya

[smokeyeager]

Good thread with lots of great points. I've been into this lifestyle since before some of the people on this site were even born and there is one rule I have learned and that is 'there are no rules". By that I mean everybody has a different idea of what a Dom/sub Mas/slave relationship is about. The hardest part is finding a partner that wants to play the same game as you.

I've noticed online you get a lot of wanna-bes that are merely looking to get a good show on cam and then be off once they've popped their cork. While not necessarily bad if you're just a sub looking for some quick play online it could escalate into a dangerous situation if the "Dom" has unrealistic demands. I would definitely avoid the "Doms" replying to a subs ad with phrases like "PM me now slut" "You'd make a good toy" etc... While some subs might enjoy being degraded at times it does not give you permission to degrade them from the start. It's up to both parties to make sure their style of play is compatible.

Another thing is people have learned different techniques and styles and may not always respond in the way we are accustomed to. For instance if I was to say "assume Present position" some would go to their knees with legs spread fingers interlocked behind their head chin up and eyes down, other would go to knees legs together finger interlocked behind head with head forward touching ground, others would remain standing with legs shoulder width apart chest out fingers interlocked behind head with chin up eyes down, while others still would be with legs shoulder width apart chest out fingers interlocked behind head with head and eyes down.

Also the definitions of Dominant, Master, submissive, and slave can vary from person to person. To me a Dominant is merely the person that prefers the more aggressive and dominant role in the bedroom while a Master is a person that is more aggressive and dominant in all areas. A submissive is a person that likes to be tied up and controlled in the bedroom while a slave is service oriented as well as being submissive in the bedroom. There is no right or wrong way to do it as long as your partner is playing the same game.

[HotBoy]

What a dickhead! (sorry mods)

[Star Shadows]

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

Good thread with lots of great points.

Thank you very much- positive feedback is always welcome and always a something I appreciate a lot and I am sure the other contributors would feel the same.

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

I've been into this lifestyle since before some of the people on this site were even born and there is one rule I have learned and that is 'there are no rules". By that I mean everybody has a different idea of what a Dom/sub Mas/slave relationship is about. The hardest part is finding a partner that wants to play the same game as you.

I've noticed online you get a lot of wanna-bes that are merely looking to get a good show on cam and then be off once they've popped their cork. While not necessarily bad if you're just a sub looking for some quick play online it could escalate into a dangerous situation if the "Dom" has unrealistic demands. I would definitely avoid the "Doms" replying to a subs ad with phrases like "PM me now slut" "You'd make a good toy" etc... While some subs might enjoy being degraded at times it does not give you permission to degrade them from the start. It's up to both parties to make sure their style of play is compatible.

Firstly, congratulations in having so much experience though I think it isn't everything. There are some things I think experience alone couldn't teach you But despite this, what you are saying is incredibly correct.

There are a lot of people who are out there just for the quick fix and for most that aren't looking for the same thing they should be avoided- not only because they are not right for them but also as they could have the potential to cause harm.

This is not strictly because there is anything wrong with these people, or even how they interact with a submissive; but because they may not necessarily know the best way to approach and moderate a situation in a way that a long term partner may do- and as you said, quite rightly so because they are could be making unrealistic demands for that submissive given the time frame. But as you again said to an extent it is still down to the involved parties to make sure they make the right choices- its just a shame to often see the trail of devastation that is left-

However in the same light I don't think this is an entirely fair generalisation as long term partners have the potential to cause just as much harm. In fact I know many people who have been most harmed by 'long term' partners- as much as long term is rather relative in itself.

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

Another thing is people have learned different techniques and styles and may not always respond in the way we are accustomed to. For instance if I was to say "assume Present position" some would go to their knees with legs spread fingers interlocked behind their head chin up and eyes down, other would go to knees legs together finger interlocked behind head with head forward touching ground, others would remain standing with legs shoulder width apart chest out fingers interlocked behind head with chin up eyes down, while others still would be with legs shoulder width apart chest out fingers interlocked behind head with head and eyes down.

This again is very true- Due to variation in training and understanding, in many parts of a relationship result in many people interpreting the same instruction such as "assume present position" in differing ways. It is rather hard to judge sometimes.

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

Also the definitions of Dominant, Master, submissive, and slave can vary from person to person. To me a Dominant is merely the person that prefers the more aggressive and dominant role in the bedroom while a Master is a person that is more aggressive and dominant in all areas. A submissive is a person that likes to be tied up and controlled in the bedroom while a slave is service oriented as well as being submissive in the bedroom. There is no right or wrong way to do it as long as your partner is playing the same game.

This is where our views differ however i suppose it is testament to the original statement that it is down to a level of personal understanding and individual difference. But I won't go into my views on this at the moment- Im too tired.... might another time.

Originally Posted by HotBoy

What a dickhead! (sorry mods)

Could you please give a little further expansion or form of criticism than hurling insults across my thread because I am not entirely sure why it is justified in this situation. I would like to request unless you have something useful to add to the thread that you dont post- rather than posting insults. It isnt just the moderators you should be apologising to.

[smokeyeager]

Originally Posted by Star Shadows

...However in the same light I don't think this is an entirely fair generalization as long term partners have the potential to cause just as much harm. In fact I know many people who have been most harmed by 'long term' partners- as much as long term is rather relative in itself....

I respect your opinions and share your views but wanted to clarify what I meant and elaborate a bit more.

I didn't mean to imply that "long-term" was safer or less harmful, just that people looking for a quick fix might be more prone to suggest an unrealistic task like "pierce your nipple" which isn't exactly dangerous but can be if done wrong.

I tend to think of a "quick fix master" as a horny guy/girl saying show me your tits/pussy/dick. OK, now masturbate. OK now ride your dildo. OK now pinch your nipples. OK now put clothespins on your nipples. OK now pierce your nipples. Escalating into what can become dangerous as their arousal peaks. Whereas I see a legitimate long term master taking the time to get to know the sub and their limits and capabilities. Also a "long term" thing could be merely a series of quick fixes by a not so good Master.

Being a good Dom/ Master to me is about playing safe, smart, and listening to your sub. I mean listening as more than just what you hear though, I mean paying attention to their responses and learning them as a person and a sub. A good D/s relationship is not give and take, it is give and give and a good Master knows this.

The best advice I could give to any sub or Master is to seek out information on things you're not sure about and always go to multiple sources.

[Star Shadows]

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

...I didn't mean to imply that "long-term" was safer or less harmful, just that people looking for a quick fix might be more prone to suggest an unrealistic task like "pierce your nipple" which isn't exactly dangerous but can be if done wrong.

I tend to think of a "quick fix master" as a horny guy/girl saying show me your tits/pussy/dick. OK, now masturbate. OK now ride your dildo. OK now pinch your nipples. OK now put clothespins on your nipples. OK now pierce your nipples. Escalating into what can become dangerous as their arousal peaks. Whereas I see a legitimate long term master taking the time to get to know the sub and their limits and capabilities. Also a "long term" thing could be merely a series of quick fixes by a not so good Master.

Ah yea I know what you mean. now. Still not sure id agree on all aspects but meh I will agree to disagree and agree kinda. But yea, by no means is long term automatically less harmful. Its why so much caution is needed in the lifestyle:- along with the knowledge that there are some things you can say no to. It is when you don't know this that people can get hurt.

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

Being a good Dom/ Master to me is about playing safe, smart, and listening to your sub. I mean listening as more than just what you hear though, I mean paying attention to their responses and learning them as a person and a sub. A good D/s relationship is not give and take, it is give and give and a good Master knows this.

Again I couldn't agree with you more on this. There is more ways to understand that a sub is not comfortable with the situation than them telling you. Body language and Facial expression being key ones, and ones in which I am trying to understand more in my attempted training as a Domme (not been doing long but building from the ground up) It is very important that you can understand your submissive's responses, and their tells so that you can adapt and change around them if needed.

Originally Posted by smokeyeager

The best advice I could give to any sub or Master is to seek out information on things you're not sure about and always go to multiple sources.

These are immortal words... all people should in-bed this idea in their head. Always, Always Always seek information from multiple sources if you are unsure of something. Playing it blind and hoping for the best is NOT the way to go. It is how people get hurt.