Help make getdare a more gender friendly place

[Princess Tally]

I have been a member of getdare for some time now and in my time i have received my fair share of dares and truths ect ect ,but i have also encountered alot of offensiveness usually passed by unnoticed by others. such as words like sissy and tranny , now these words may be only offensive to transgender people like myself but it still hurts too see them being waved around so effortlessly, also games like boys vs girls or boys can only answer this and girls can only answer that , as a transgender or someone currently questioning their gender it can be very disheartening to want to join in a fun game only to be asked what have you shoved up your pussy? or how big are your boobs? You see i love answering truths and you can just say oh dont answer those answer something else , but it just the plain fact that i am restricted from answering questions for my gender just because i dont fit the social norm of that gender , another form of gender hate i have ran across is someone being mad because their sub was only pretending to be a girl , without actually questioning them to see if they were actually a girl with a masculine body. Anyway i could say more but id like to hear what you think about this? Do you think that we should try and make getdare a little more gender friendly or do you think we should carry on as we are and if someone gets offended thats theirnown fault for being on this site in the first place.
Ps im sorry about the grammer and zero paragraphs but im on my phone writing this.

[Conviction]

normally I would agree with you %100. but this site is a bit different, let me explain why
annonimity, when you are a straight male who is developing a relationship with a sub, only to later find out that they do not have the body you thought they did, its a huge downer, you are simply not attracted to them the thing is, ive done this my self, let me make this clear
I AM BI CURIOUS
i like guys (cute ones mainly) but I also strongly prefer the female body, though dicks dont get in the way too much for me, but when someone posts that they are female and you begin talking to them in a sexual way because of that (this is a sexual site) then it becomes a sort of deception, the one being talked to feels betrayed, this dosnt happen when talking face to face, as usually the differences are visible.

this leads into my second point, this is inherently a site about sex, like it or not, and sex involves genitals, which become rather important when you consider that sex is simply mashing naughty bits together. on a site like this, female is basically shorthand for "i have a pussy and boobs, not a schlong"

Final word.
You can be as female as you want, but you should probably have a warning in your signature, something that says "I have a penis" (less blatantly if you want) if you are busting a wiener but are female. not to announce it, but to make sure that the people who want to give you dares, and have a relationship with you know before they decide to go balls deep (pardon the expression) this will stop the confusion, it will stop most of the accidental discrimination, and the people here are really nice it will probably stop it outright.

these are just my thoughts on the subject, i would be happy to chat more though, have a nice day!

[Cstelle]

Aren't words like "sissy" or "tranny" primarily used as part of self-humiliation play here on gD?

I may be wrong - but that's how I read it. I don't think anyone on gD wants to offend anyone based on sex, gender, sexuality or lack of. Glass houses, and all that...

But yes, I see that the use of certain expressions may cause offence. It's not a small problem - but I don't know how to solve it.

[Jah Brother]

You might be interested in this discussion: http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=186878
It got trashed, so you would want to make sure this discussion wouldn't look alike too much

Also the part where you say: ''also games like boys vs girls or boys can only answer this and girls can only answer that''; 90% of the time there is an equal minded truth/dare for the opposite gender. Tease and denied by girls, is also a tease and denied by guys. Etc.

[Cstelle]

Originally Posted by Jah Brother

You might be interested in this discussion: http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=186878
It got trashed, so you would want to make sure this discussion wouldn't look alike too much

Yoiks! [Closing the door quietly, hoping no-one noticed he was even in.]

[Jah Brother]

Originally Posted by Cstelle

Yoiks! [Closing the door quietly, hoping no-one noticed he was even in.]

Sowwy! I just think it's a very related discussion.

[Leopard]

I'm so unbelievably tired of people holding up the "offended" card as if it makes their opinion any more important than anyone else's. It doesn't.

So let's look at what you actually have to say.

"words like sissy and tranny might possibly be offensive."

Words like slut and bitch might be offensive too, but they're allowed to be used in many, many usernames.

I would personally like to think that members are mature enough to understand that words are just words, and that there is no maliciousness behind those particular words.

No one is being singled out or bullied because of those words, and I would hope anyone being abused against their will is reporting such abuse - however such a case would have nothing to do with the particular words, but the abuse itself.

"also games like boys vs girls or only boys can answer this."

Boy or Girl is a valid gender label to want to want to associate with, too. They also tend to be the most popular choices, and so make the most popular threads. If you want to make "Girls vs FtM-considering" go right ahead. You have every right to. But don't think that every single game in the playground has to include every single person within a mile range and every snowflake need they have, because that's just unrealistic.

As for only boys or only girls can answer this, they tend to be tailored towards the person finding boys or girls they may be interested in via asking a set of questions to get the answers they want. Alternatively you could say people tend to be interested in either penises or vaginas and so gravitate towards the questions about those organs. Most people have one or the other and can choose to answer as they like.

First of all you labelled the existence of boy only or girl only threads as hate, which is bullshit. Are you currently suing the council for having male and female designated toilets? Do you want all boy only girl only threads deleted? Must everyone stop doing anything they like that doesn't please you? Has someone said you can't make your own super inclusive thread?

Also, if you're joining a game "for girls" and then get surprised when someone asks about your pussy, you're deluding yourself. Of course people are going to expect a girl to be a girl. That's basic common sense. You have every right to identify as a girl, and to tell people upfront that you have a different body, but don't act like people are bullying you by assuming someone saying they are a girl actually has the body associated with that word.

Onto subs and "faking." No, that isn't gender hate. That's liar hate. If you go into a relationship with someone and aren't upfront about your unconventional choices, then you are well aware that you are deceiving that person. No one likes to be deceived. You can identify as a caterpillar if you like, and I'm fine with that - so long as you tell me. If a girl comes up to me asking to be a sub, then gets mad that I didn't ask her if she was really a caterpillar, then she is the one being unreasonable.

Like it or not, most people identify as girls or boys. If you want to do something else, that's fine - but don't expect the entire world to shift just for you. And don't try and make me care just because you say you are "offended." I find stupidity offensive. I still have to put up with it every day.

Note: This is a personal opinion, not any sort of "staff" opinion. Mods are people too.

[teenslaveboy]

To me, gender is this silly, made up thing anyway. No one is a "boy" or a "girl," except to the extent that their personalities line up with a cultural expectation of what it means to be a boy or a girl. Compare, say, to being an extrovert or an introvert: no one is objectively either one, because they are labels we attach to people to help us sort them into arbitrary groups. Imagine how weird it would be if we started looking at a newborn's physical traits and deciding, based on, say, eye color, whether they were an extrovert or an introvert. Imagine how surprised we would be when that brown-eyed introvert turned out to prefer dancing to reading.

I guess my point is that gender makes no sense to have as a benchmark for pretty much anything. If you do have a "type," like you are attracted to the kinds of people who wear fancy clothes, and if your preferences happen to line up pretty squarely with a socially defined list of the traits of a given gender, it still limits yourself to only look for potential partners within that gender. Imagine seeing an ad on gesture that says "introvert/34/master seeking extrovert/18-25/slave." Obviously, personality traits can be determined individually, through communication and experience, and don't need to be labelled "introverted" or "girly" behavior. That's not to say you couldn't label yourself, and people do all the time. I'm just saying, I personally feel no need to do so for myself, and I barely trust others' self-assessments, since studies show that people are actually terrible at defining themselves accurately.

Now, that being said, there is also such a thing as sex, as a discrete phenomenon from gender. While gender deals with personality as a whole, sex deals with the body as a whole. This is still socially-driven, though: what makes a person male or female is generally either their genitals, their secondary sexual traits, or their chromosomes, but we classify people by these traits because we have decided that they have importance. When it comes to sexuality, just like you may find yourself attracted to a specific personality label, like "boy," or "extrovert," you may find yourself attracted to specific body labels, like "skinny," or "has a dick." And obviously, there's nothing wrong with that either; you can't control your sexuality, and you shouldn't have to, as long as you don't act on it without the consent of everyone involved. Just understand that you are limiting yourself by limiting your search by specific labels, because other people might not be using those labels in the same way. "Girl" to you might mean "has a vagina," while to someone else, it may mean "likes dresses." You may be fine with someone who doesn't wear dresses, as long as they have a specific body type, but someone with your preferred body type might not even approach you, because they think you won't like their personality.

[Leopard]

Yes and no. It's fine to point out that gender terms are outdated and over simplified (and they are) but the reality is that language is what the majority of society uses. So when someone says "boy" or "girl" right now, there is a commonly accepted meaning for it. The meaning doesn't automatically change just because one person wants a new meaning. You can call a highway a field, but you're still going to get run over if you try to play on it.

As for sex, I don't think it's really unreasonable to stick with male and female on the basis of reproductive organs. They're there to interact with each other to create more people. A minority deciding they need to chop and change doesn't change that fact. It's like the stories of MtF people demanding mammary exams for breast cancer. This sort of thing is just wasting professional's time. You can say you are what you like, but the rest of reality doesn't shift for your whims.

Society is slowly moving towards more acceptance for anyone that doesn't identify as "straight" or "normal" or whatever you want to call the most common, standard configuration. Demanding everyone adjusts instantly to your personal desired outcome is unrealistic, self-entitled, and turns people against you. There are better ways to continue a positive progression of acceptance than crying about how you're offended that everyone isn't catering to you and throwing around immature accusations to sensationalise things.

[AppleEden]

Wow... so, to me this proves that getdare is not an inclusive place, but in truth really is quite exclusive to anyone who isn't cis gender.

And being bi/bi curious or just not "straight" doesn't mean you understand the issues facing transgender people. I'm pansexual, and though I have had challenges and discrimination based on that, I am quite obviously a cis-woman, so I haven't had to go through the trials that transgendered people do. Saying you can understand and speak for transgendered people because your bi is the same as me saying that I, as a white woman, can speak for people of colour because I have experienced discrimination being a woman. It just doesn't make sense.

Saying that since trans people are a minority means that they ought to just go along with the majority is exactly the problem that Princess Tally is trying to bring up. That kind of notion is really oppressive to anyone who isn't cisgendered.

I think it's fair to be offended by terms "sissy" and especially "tranny", and those words DO have significance. Words are never just "words", they can hurt and they are powerful. However it's really complex on this site because of the whole kink and humiliation aspect. Unfortunately, if we find the sensation of being humiliated a turn-on, what is humiliating has been engrained in us from society. For men, often being considered feminine is unfortunately degrading, and I've realized through talking to people here that it often doesn't mean that they think women(/the feminine) are lesser than men(/the masculine), it really is just this engrained thing that they use to bring about the sensation of being humiliated. There's a part of me that's peeved that this is so (particularly as a very feminine woman), however as long as no one is degrading me for being a woman, I let it be. Also, I find the words "slut" and "bitch" very offensive, yet it's engrained in me that they are humiliating or dirty things to be, so I liked being called them in a sexual context. However, it's consensual (often pre-negotiated) name-calling, and if things get out of hand, everything stops. Also, the fact that these words bring about the humiliated feeling proves how powerful they are. Words evoke feeling (heck, being name-called in bed could even be a word-kink!).

And I've heard from guys a lot here on this site being disappointed that who they were playing with wasn't a woman-born-female,leading to a complete break in contact. Though I can imagine for a transgendered person going through something like that, where they think they might have a Dom and then they are left is also a disturbing experience. That's why if a trans person is genuinely looking for a relationship/play partner/whatever they should probably mention they are not a woman-born-female, or otherwise ask about what kind of genitalia they want in a partner early on, etc. I could see that saving hurt on both sides.

I think what Princess Tally is pointing out is a legitimate problem. If it's so important that the truths have such a heavy sexual/genital relation than maybe they should be labeled "for penis-people" or "for-vagina people"? But even then that would be awkward for anyone transitioning. It's really tough stuff she's bringing up.

These are really tough issues that should be addressed, but can't be solved easily. I think the only way we can even make a slight bit of progress on them is by listening to anyone who is transgendered and NOT delegitimizing their experiences. This also involves recognizing that if you are not transgender you will never be able to know what it's like to be transgender or fathom the problems/trials they have to go through.

It's tough. Thanks for speaking out about this Princess Tally.

[Leopard]

Originally Posted by AppleEden

Wow... so, to me this proves that getdare is not an inclusive place, but in truth really is quite exclusive to anyone who isn't cis gender.

No, it really doesn't. There are tens of thousands of members, thousands of posts every day ... but you think that one post defines the entire site?

Originally Posted by AppleEden

Saying that since trans people are a minority means that they ought to just go along with the majority is exactly the problem that Princess Tally is trying to bring up. That kind of notion is really oppressive to anyone who isn't cisgendered.

I'm sorry that you hate democracy, but that's how it works. Anyone can raise an issue, but it's the majority that votes on what society wants as a whole. If 99% of people think girl and boy refers to traditional genders, that's what the words mean. It doesn't matter if you think girl means flowerpot when everyone uses it for another specific meaning.

That is not oppression. There is a massive difference between non-cisgendered people becoming accepted (which itself is still in its infancy in society) and expecting every other person to change their definitions of all their words just to make a few people of a minority happy. It's completely unrealistic and self serving.

Accusing a "for girls" thread of being excluding is utter rubbish. Any member is entitled to make threads looking for replies from the groups they want replies from. They don't need to include you or me or anyone else specifically. You can't go around telling people who they want to talk to. Now, if they say "no trans allowed on this forum get out" then that is absolutely wrong and no one should ever put up with that. But that is not what is happening here.

Originally Posted by AppleEden

I think it's fair to be offended by terms "sissy" and especially "tranny", and those words DO have significance. Words are never just "words", they can hurt and they are powerful. However it's really complex on this site because of the whole kink and humiliation aspect. Unfortunately, if we find the sensation of being humiliated a turn-on, what is humiliating has been engrained in us from society. For men, often being considered feminine is unfortunately degrading, and I've realized through talking to people here that it often doesn't mean that they think women(/the feminine) are lesser than men(/the masculine), it really is just this engrained thing that they use to bring about the sensation of being humiliated. There's a part of me that's peeved that this is so (particularly as a very feminine woman), however as long as no one is degrading me for being a woman, I let it be. Also, I find the words "slut" and "bitch" very offensive, yet it's engrained in me that they are humiliating or dirty things to be, so I liked being called them in a sexual context. However, it's consensual (often pre-negotiated) name-calling, and if things get out of hand, everything stops. Also, the fact that these words bring about the humiliated feeling proves how powerful they are. Words evoke feeling (heck, being name-called in bed could even be a word-kink!).

You can be offended by whatever you want; it doesn't actually need to mean anything to anyone else. That said I've never seen tranny being used in an offensive way on this site, and a trans person has no claim to sissy anyway. You can complain about sissy referring to women as weak all you like, but good luck reverting several thousand years of human society. Neither you or I are going to change that. You'd have to change basic education and what families tell their children, as well as stop religious brain washing in children. These things are very deeply ingrained in society long before people come to this website.

Then again you say that other words offend you but you enjoy them in play, so you kind of argued away your own point there. Words are just words: they change over time and have different meanings attached to them by different groups of people over time. You can say a word is offensive to you, and I can say a word isn't offensive to me. You can't claim one or the other is more entitled.

Originally Posted by AppleEden

I think what Princess Tally is pointing out is a legitimate problem. If it's so important that the truths have such a heavy sexual/genital relation than maybe they should be labeled "for penis-people" or "for-vagina people"? But even then that would be awkward for anyone transitioning. It's really tough stuff she's bringing up.

I replied to this above, but absolutely not. There is no reason whatsoever that anyone making a thread needs to cater to any specific person. If I write a story about two gay men, or two gay women, there is no reason at all that I have to change it to be a coloured transsexual and a chair just because it's what you want.

Originally Posted by AppleEden

These are really tough issues that should be addressed, but can't be solved easily. I think the only way we can even make a slight bit of progress on them is by listening to anyone who is transgendered and NOT delegitimizing their experiences. This also involves recognizing that if you are not transgender you will never be able to know what it's like to be transgender or fathom the problems/trials they have to go through.

They certainly are tough issues, but dramatising it by claiming you are offended by everyone else and accusing them of gender hate for using the two generally accepted gender labels and demanding everyone change their threads to include everyone in one big happy family is absolutely not the way to do it, nor do you need to turn it into the heartfelt drama you're attempting to while ignoring the unfair things the person is saying simply because they are claiming to be offended.

I'm not sure why you're so determined to demand that anyone who isn't specifically dealing with the same issue is not allowed to speak on it. That's awfully exclusive. You're saying that one small group is allowed to demand how everyone else behaves (including in activities that have nothing to do with that group) but that no one else can say a word about it.

[Ly Ph]

I think most things have been covered here so I am not going to go into great detail on some things.

Firstly I have sissy friends, there nice people and at least the ones I know worry about offending transgender people.

Bad words are bad, except when they are good. By this I mean you can call some one anything you want under the umbrella of humiliation. Part of being here is accepting that some people like stuff that you do not. I know at least one of my friends hates the term slave but he puts up with it. That said I have seen threads "would you fuck a tranny" or something along those lines and that is kinda offensive. The major difference between the two is context.

As for gender specific threads, well I kinda feel the pain of them existing. I know when I first joined I wanted to make an advert but there was only the option of male or female. If I chose ether one I would consider it some sort of lie to some one and so I asked for there to be an option for transgender people in there and poof they added it hence you having the option on your profiles (though I don't see it right now on the master/slave area). I do also find it difficult and worrying to join a thread related to gender but we are in the minority here and it would be difficult to create an alternative. I will say that when I joined the Tease and Denial by girls and began denying people as a girl, no one rejected that. We also had transgender people both denying and joining the thread later and that was fine.

The one thing I don't like is hiding your gender identity and pretending to be something you are not (I kinda don't like people saying transgender when they are not as it results in me getting dares like "Wear knickers for 24h" when that isnt a fetish of mine and I do that all the time). When it comes to D/s relationships, this is a relationship. Time, effort and emotions are pumped into this like any other relationship. Sure it may be more difficult to find some one as your gender rather than female but really your just smashing some ones heart each time you do it.

I guess this whole post went on a bit as well.

[Conviction]

just thought i would check back, and the person above got it right with their signature, Ly ph, let me explain.
The signature shows clearly that she is pre op explaining very succinctly that she does have a penis, and that she can be given penis related dares and whatnot,
it also says that she is "lesbian" which clearly implies that she wants to be treated as female.
a signature like that will stop people from giving you pussy dares that you feel bad for not doing, and explains to everybody how you feel about your sexuality without sounding like a complaint or a demand. most importantly, it gives people the information that they need if they want to be sensitive.