A Training Academy?

[TensionRoom101]

I certainly have never been interested in 'pre trained' submissives or slaves. If I take on an inexperienced slave, I can't see where someone else 'training' them on my behalf would be of use. Being a Master is a full time commitment, and submissives need to be nurtured into the role by their One. If a Dominant hasn't got the time to do this, I can't see how he'd have the time to treat the submissive the way she ought to be treated.

I have reservations about taking on pre-owned submissives because of the amount of emotional and psychological damage that often has to be repaired. As for 'pre trained' off the shelf slaves, not a chance.

As a devil's advocate question though, who would train them? With what experience and to what criteria?

Mike

[Phoenix_blaze]

If you read up, you will find that this question has already been answered. Read from where Coyote commented about wanting to take un-trained slaves.

You will see that i said the criteria is agreed and defined by polls and opinions nearer the time, and that people who train them are simply people who have mastered the field themselves.

[dareboy2]

the only flaw in this is that some slaves only want mistresses others only want masters, steping out of which could leave their comfort zone, like myself i only involve myself with mistress'

PERHAPS another idea would be to have a training academy for new inexperienced masters and mistresses, ive met a few who are interested but have little to no experience and i have found myself training them.

[Phoenix_blaze]

The academy could be for general people, so really anyone can take part in courses that are on offer.

What you said about genders, well the ideal solution would be for classes to be announed by teachers when they want to hold it. Much like in the S/M forums, they would simply say that they are say; "GENDER/AGE/Holding a ### class for/AGE/GENDER

that would solve the problem =]

[SubMissChievous]

Okay, I’ve read the whole thread and here’s my opinion on it: it seems to me that there are some points that you are taking too lightly and that you have not taken into consideration some other important points here…

One very important point is that, as much as there are young and relatively inexperienced slaves here, the amount of young and inexperienced dominants is just as high. Honestly I can only think of maybe 5 or 6 dominants who I would consider as sufficiently knowledgeable to take on a “teacher” role and 2 of them are not active members at the moment.

Another thing to consider is the online factor. Training online can be a lot harder than in RL for both dominants and submissives. From both party it takes a great deal of discipline. And it requires also some extra cautions to be taken at times. I know very few Masters who are able to “read” their slaves online as they have less information from them such as reactions, body language, etc. even on webcam. And the ones who can do that need often some time to get acquaintted with their slaves to notice those reactions and patterns.

Ans speaking of patterns… yet another point that was only vaguely considered in your posts is what benefit a Master would have to get a pre-trained slave. From my personal experience and conversations with other Masters or slaves is that when a relationship ends and a slave start out with a new dominant more often than not there are some patterns to be broken from the previous relationship and some other things have to be re-learned completely. Sometimes because of damage left, some other times just because the dominant want to work some things in a different way.

Originally Posted by Phoenix blaze

how the Academy would work is there would be specifications layed out based on polls. For example, lets say we are talking about the Anal course.

For bronze, you may have to hold a small item of certain length and width, for silver, bigger and for gold biggest. We would agree on the details by polls, seeing the biggest and the smallest used objects.

Setting pre-defined general goals like this sounds quite unrealistic, imo… You have to consider that for some, achieving a certain goal in a specific activity can take weeks while for another it can take years. Not everyone has the same capacities, experience and background. These kinda things are too different from one individual to another to simply pre-determine goals based on some poll…

Originally Posted by TensionRoom101

Being a Master is a full time commitment, and submissives need to be nurtured into the role by their One. If a Dominant hasn't got the time to do this, I can't see how he'd have the time to treat the submissive the way she ought to be treated.

I fully agree with this and I could also add that if a dominant doesn’t have either the time or knowledge to do their own training then they are showing me that they need to go to the learning tree themselves…:-\

Originally Posted by TensionRoom101

As a devil's advocate question though, who would train them? With what experience and to what criteria?

Originally Posted by Phoenix blaze

If you read up, you will find that this question has already been answered. Read from where Coyote commented about wanting to take un-trained slaves.

Yes, you have… but in a very general and unspecific way… Just saying that they should prove that they are GOLD material and that they have mastered their field is not sufficient enough, at least for me…

So my own personal opinion is that so far the idea sounds way to vague and blurry and the way it is described too general and simplistic for me to see how this could be beneficial to either subs or doms. It sounds like a good concept for a storyline but hardly realistic.

And, to be honest, the risks that such “training” could cause more harm than good is way too high, at least the way you’re describing it so far and I would be a bit worried if getDare would endorse it at this point.

[TensionRoom101]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_blaze

You will see that i said the criteria is agreed and defined by polls and opinions nearer the time, and that people who train them are simply people who have mastered the field themselves.

But trained to do what exactly? Some Doms insist on floor gazing, others eye contact. Some want to be called Sir, Master or Mistress, some like me don't allow it. Any 'Training Academy' should focus on safety, mental and emotional wellbeing, empowerment, and 50 other things before it even begins to look at measuring a sub on the size of thing you can shove up their arse.

[Phoenix_blaze]

Originally Posted by Chloe

One very important point is that, as much as there are young and relatively inexperienced slaves here, the amount of young and inexperienced dominants is just as high. Honestly I can only think of maybe 5 or 6 dominants who I would consider as sufficiently knowledgeable to take on a “teacher” role and 2 of them are not active members at the moment.

True, then perhaps it should be left as simply an "academy" idea - then anyone can enroll. Should Depp like the idea it will probrably be stuck into your user profiles anyway, so everyone can have the chance to join in or not.

Originally Posted by Chloe

Another thing to consider is the online factor. Training online can be a lot harder than in RL for both dominants and submissives. From both party it takes a great deal of discipline. And it requires also some extra cautions to be taken at times. I know very few Masters who are able to “read” their slaves online as they have less information from them such as reactions, body language, etc. even on webcam. And the ones who can do that need often some time to get acquaintted with their slaves to notice those reactions and patterns..

This is true, and is a point that has not been thought of yet. Courses may not have to run in the short time frame of one night, perhaps they can go on for a few days etc. but it will require input from both people, and i'm sure people have the brain power to know if they can be online or not.

Originally Posted by Chloe

Ans speaking of patterns… yet another point that was only vaguely considered in your posts is what benefit a Master would have to get a pre-trained slave.

Slaves can gain insight into the activities of this world, so we will cut down the amount of people who say; "no limits", "don't know what i like", "not sure if its for me" etc. It helps the SLAVES by finding out about the world and themselves. It helps MASTERS because they can see (by referring to the qualifications) what a slave is capable of - so they can take on people who they know are into the same kind of thing they are. Of course, not everyone will take part in the academy, so there will be a selection of untrained slaves which masters may wish to take up - perhaps even courses in the academy where masters agree to cover a range of things with slaves other than one course.

Originally Posted by Chloe

Setting pre-defined general goals like this sounds quite unrealistic, imo… You have to consider that for some, achieving a certain goal in a specific activity can take weeks while for another it can take years. Not everyone has the same capacities, experience and background. These kinda things are too different from one individual to another to simply pre-determine goals based on some poll...

This is how schools work Chloe, the exam board set goals; IE - students display the ability to perform this specific type of maths question. If you can't do that, you don't get marked for it - simples

The idea of using polls was so that we can get a wide range of users abilities, and take average results, so that 90% of people will have the capabilities.

Originally Posted by Chloe

Yes, you have… but in a very general and unspecific way… Just saying that they should prove that they are GOLD material and that they have mastered their field is not sufficient enough, at least for me…

I'm not really sure what you want me to say to this Chloe, because you appear to be back tracing and repeating everything that has already been said. There has to be a way to seperate people who can teach and those who cannot - this is done by ability. There is obviously no limit to teachers (more the better), but if they can't do it themselves then it seems pointless them teaching the subject.

Originally Posted by Chloe

So my own personal opinion is that so far the idea sounds way to vague and blurry and the way it is described too general and simplistic for me to see how this could be beneficial to either subs or doms. It sounds like a good concept for a storyline but hardly realistic.

I have fully explained the benefits for both contributing parties (of course there may well be more). The idea is nowhere near fully formed, and my first post said that - this post is here for people to CONTRIBUTE to the idea, OR to say they don't think its a good idea - not for people to repeat my first post by saying its an unformed idea.

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Originally Posted by TensionRoom101

But trained to do what exactly? Some Doms insist on floor gazing, others eye contact. Some want to be called Sir, Master or Mistress, some like me don't allow it. Any 'Training Academy' should focus on safety, mental and emotional wellbeing, empowerment, and 50 other things before it even begins to look at measuring a sub on the size of thing you can shove up their arse.

I never once spoke about the courses the academy has to offer. Safety and general knowledge in this area is obviously of prime concern to most of us, and is something that is planned. HOWEVER; some doms may insist on floor gazing etc, but that is something the specific person can train the slaves in themselves.

If the academy taught EVERYTHING, then previous points about there being nothing left for doms to train their slaves in would be perfectly true. The academy would provide simple and basic training in the typical areas. Any other personalization of slaves falls down to the masters themselves

Well that was a huge post lol

[SubMissChievous]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Blaze

The idea is nowhere near fully formed, and my first post said that - this post is here for people to CONTRIBUTE to the idea, OR to say they don't think its a good idea - not for people to repeat my first post by saying its an unformed idea.

Phoenix… I understand that it may be annoying to you to have someone repeating that your idea is unformed but a reply mentioning it is not any less contributive if it is to point out what should be thought of. It’s just that it is usually not a bad idea to have a solid plan BEFORE starting any projects. Perhaps you could see those points being raised as feedback to form your unformed project instead of as being only there to "uncontributively" remind you that your project is unformed

And one of the main reason for my first reply was simply because you are basically asking for a "getDare stamp of approval" on a project that is, to your own admission, unformed and have yet to give specific details on the most important points and I felt that these should be thought of first.

Originally Posted by Phoenix Blaze

This is true, and is a point that has not been thought of yet. Courses may not have to run in the short time frame of one night, perhaps they can go on for a few days etc. but it will require input from both people, and i'm sure people have the brain power to know if they can be online or not.

I’m afraid you have misunderstood what I was talking about when I mentioned about the online factor. I was referring to the fact that your teachers will have some extra things to be careful of unlike if it was in RL not about whether they can be online or not…

Originally Posted by Phoenix

The idea of using polls was so that we can get a wide range of users abilities, and take average results, so that 90% of people will have the capabilities.

Hmm… the percentage of people who would have the capabilities would not necessarily be 90%: It would depend on the poll average results…

Originally Posted by Phoenix Blaze

I'm not really sure what you want me to say to this Chloe, because you appear to be back tracing and repeating everything that has already been said. There has to be a way to seperate people who can teach and those who cannot - this is done by ability. There is obviously no limit to teachers (more the better), but if they can't do it themselves then it seems pointless them teaching the subject.

Well yeah I guess I’m repeating because too many questions have yet to be answered… So I guess I’m gonna ask you directly: How exactly would these teachers be picked and based on what? Yeah ability is one thing but how exactly will it be measured? And will there be any form of outside supervision? And if so by who?

See… the problem is that there is still way too many questions unanswered and too many “maybes” and “have yet to think about this and that”. And, unfortunately, what I see so far is that the general idea is still primarily focused on making slaves achieving a certain level of standard at performing tasks and such with very few details in general and almost no answers (or vague ones) to some very important questions raised so far… :-/

[Phoenix_blaze]

Sorry, i obvously just got a little bit peeved writing such a huggeeee post.

Originally Posted by Chloe

Hmm… the percentage of people who would have the capabilities would not necessarily be 90%: It would depend on the poll average results…

This is true, but as i did already say it works much like school does - if you can't do it, you don't get marked. You work on it, and try again. The academy will obviously show division lines between people in the way of capabilities, but people may excell in different areas not simply one specific.

Originally Posted by Chloe

So I guess I’m gonna ask you directly: How exactly would these teachers be picked and based on what? Yeah ability is one thing but how exactly will it be measured? And will there be any form of outside supervision? And if so by who?

My idea was to (if the idea is accepted), to firstly use polls and user feedback to identify the criteria. That is the main number one goal first. Once we have this, we will be able to start recruting teachers. These can be ANYONE, of ANY AGE and ANY GENDER. Then, perhaps by moderators or a group of people allocated, the teachers then have to prove that they are GOLD criteria in the subject they wish to teach. Once they have proved it, perhaps they get a medal in their profile? Stamp? Special colour? But in some way it will be clear that they are a QUALIFIED teacher. People may apply to be teachers at ANY TIME, as long as they think that they can meet the criteria. Once they do, they can teach if they want to. There is no limit to teachers, as obviously some people won't want to be teachers at all.

Originally Posted by Chloe

See… the problem is that there is still way too many questions unanswered and too many “maybes” and “have yet to think about this and that”. And, unfortunately, what I see so far is that the general idea is still primarily focused on making slaves achieving a certain level of standard at performing tasks and such with very few details in general and almost no answers (or vague ones) to some very important questions raised so far… :-/

Well i have certainly attempted to answer all the questions, however it would be nice if it was not just me trying to answer them, but perhaps if other people would make a suggestion to problems rather than quizzing me. This topic is here, right now, so that people can help form the idea if they want to.

[Merlin]

I don't think chloé wants to quizz you but to show you that this needs a lot more thinking.
And is also talking about the things i did mean when i said you need to think about a lot more than what you did ...

But i still see the biggest flaw in your concept are the teachers and how you chose them...

1st You don't need to be able to do it to yourself to teach something.

2nd Being able to do something doesn't mean you can teach to do it. Only because i can put a cumber all the way up my ass doesn't mean i have any idea of what i am doing and what may be dangerous and what i have to watch out for. Even if someone has done something 100 times doesn't mean it is safe ... especially it doesn't mean it is as safe for everyone ... And to know what could go wrong is 100 times more important for your teachers than being able to do it

3rd Something almost no one is talking here is care ... a teacher will have to deal with the emotions too. It doesn't end with showing how to do it. And again you need people that are able to do it or they can do more harm than good (the only one thinking of that so far was tensionroom...)

I don't say it is impossible to find teachers but you need to be aware that they need a lot more than being "gold" in a subject...


Good you asked for suggestions ... how about this

Drop the idea of many subjects and making it part of getdare and giving awards and stuff like that... chose 1 or 2 subjects and find at very least one teacher that is really knowing what he is doing and is able to watch out for safety and emotions and 2-3 pupils and try it first. Also try to hold the classes as small as posible for practical lessons (for the theoretical part that wont be needed so much)

How this would look like:
Every lesson will be done by 1 teacher and at least at the start should be overlooked by at least 1 other person
Before the lessons Talking with each other about each other as part to
First lesson Starting to get to know the members of the class and maybe some basic "what can you do" (still without doing it!)
Then a few theoretical lessons Theory and Safety Issues. "You should never!..."
Some very easy and very basic practical lessons start with some easy practical training. Mixed with another portion of theory
After the safety is set Checking what the pupils can already do in one on ones
Sorting Sorting the pupils in groups (as small as posible) of similar previous knowledge
The teaching you were talking about...

[lukey_barn]

i think it would be an awesome idea..ive beena slave twice..so not much experience and it would be good to learn from other people.
Limits: poo.pee.nothing too loud.
addy: [email protected]

[TensionRoom101]

Well, I have been in further and higher education for 18 years, and the last 10 of that was predominantly teaching teachers how to teach. Differentiated learning, learning styles, target settings, individual action plans... effective learning strategies. I am commissioned to write and deliver courses both classroom based and online through managed learning environments.

I am also a healer and counsellor, an NLP practitioner, and life coach, and for 15 years have facilitated occasional workshops on self esteem, releasing potential and the like. In this capacity I spend a lot of time undoing lasting emotional and mental trauma in submissives with horrendous experiences.

I have been a practicing BDSMer for 20 years. For the last 7 years I have been a mentor to both subs and doms, male and female, real life face to face and online.

However, feel free to disregard my advice and observations if it's easier than engaging with them.

Mike

[Phoenix_blaze]

Originally Posted by TensionRoom101

Well, I have been in further and higher education for 18 years, and the last 10 of that was predominantly teaching teachers how to teach. Differentiated learning, learning styles, target settings, individual action plans... effective learning strategies. I am commissioned to write and deliver courses both classroom based and online through managed learning environments.

I am also a healer and counsellor, an NLP practitioner, and life coach, and for 15 years have facilitated occasional workshops on self esteem, releasing potential and the like. In this capacity I spend a lot of time undoing lasting emotional and mental trauma in submissives with horrendous experiences.

I have been a practicing BDSMer for 20 years. For the last 7 years I have been a mentor to both subs and doms, male and female, real life face to face and online.

However, feel free to disregard my advice and observations if it's easier than engaging with them.

Mike

Well aren't you a busy body then - exactly what advice was you referring to?