Why S/M is NOT for underage?

[Maggy]

=/ I just don't get along with anyone that believes that underage s/m, or just underage sex, is acceptable. The point remains that it's illegal, immoral and downright dangerous. And here you are trying to justify it. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to abandon this thread completely. I'm just going to say something to get myself banned if I have to listen to you anymore. I'm sorry if my arrogance has offended anyone.

[andrew_b]

I had a 14 year old girl ask me to be her dom, deeply upsetted me. I think just out a immaturity underage shouldn't do it. It's a shame but it isn't totally policeable, only really can advise and hope the kids listen

[Invisible]

Originally Posted by yours_slave

Your children are lucky to have you. Please ignore the "bullshit" and do not ever stop protecting kids from lustful eyes.

Thank you very much - that was very kind of you. And no I won't stop - I try to do my bit on this site to help by reporting, campaigning and helping - but in my own way which is usually quietly behind the scenes (which is totally unlike me in real life).

I think what some of the commenters on this thread need to understand is that there a basic physiological differences between adults and children (under 20 maybe) - this is why teenagers go through so much toil as their brains develop - essentially from one state to another.

If you are a teenager reading this then you need to understand that the confusion, anger and emotions that you feel as a teenager are not anybody's fault but simply the natural process of growth and development. And if your parents dont understand this then buy them one of Nigel Latta's books for christmas.

Slightly off topic but I do not believe that Children should be exposed to s/m during this very formative and confusing period.

[Dark_Delight]

Heh weird I thought I already replied to this.

Originally Posted by Maggy

=/ I just don't get along with anyone that believes that underage s/m, or just underage sex, is acceptable. The point remains that it's illegal, immoral and downright dangerous. And here you are trying to justify it. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to abandon this thread completely. I'm just going to say something to get myself banned if I have to listen to you anymore. I'm sorry if my arrogance has offended anyone.

Yes god forbid two 17 year old's having sex and doing some roleplaying. Nature/god/the universe/the divine whatever you want to call it has humans set up to start having sex around 15-16 and a little bit of bdsm doesn't make it horrible. Also 18 is just the age most people graduate highschool it is not a psychological or physical milestone of any kind.

Originally Posted by Invisible

Thank you very much - that was very kind of you. And no I won't stop - I try to do my bit on this site to help by reporting, campaigning and helping - but in my own way which is usually quietly behind the scenes (which is totally unlike me in real life).

I think what some of the commenters on this thread need to understand is that there a basic physiological differences between adults and children (under 20 maybe) - this is why teenagers go through so much toil as their brains develop - essentially from one state to another.

If you are a teenager reading this then you need to understand that the confusion, anger and emotions that you feel as a teenager are not anybody's fault but simply the natural process of growth and development. And if your parents dont understand this then buy them one of Nigel Latta's books for christmas.

Slightly off topic but I do not believe that Children should be exposed to s/m during this very formative and confusing period.

It was an empty compliment he knows nothing about you or your kids. There is no massive difference between teens and adults. I'm 21 and I'm hardly different from when I was 16 and my anger and hate isn't part of a natural growth or development that's just BS parents say to feel better about themselves. The truth is it is a direct result of my parents actions and no book would've made them change their ways in any significant way. You are delusional if you are treating your kids the same way you just described feeling about everyone under 20 and think you are doing a good job as a parent.

[Invisible]

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

Heh weird I thought I already replied to this.



Yes god forbid two 17 year old's having sex and doing some roleplaying. Nature/god/the universe/the divine whatever you want to call it has humans set up to start having sex around 15-16 and a little bit of bdsm doesn't make it horrible. Also 18 is just the age most people graduate highschool it is not a psychological or physical milestone of any kind.


It was an empty compliment he knows nothing about you or your kids. There is no massive difference between teens and adults. I'm 21 and I'm hardly different from when I was 16 and my anger and hate isn't part of a natural growth or development that's just BS parents say to feel better about themselves. The truth is it is a direct result of my parents actions and no book would've made them change their ways in any significant way. You are delusional if you are treating your kids the same way you just described feeling about everyone under 20 and think you are doing a good job as a parent.

I don't normally engage with rude and ignorant people.

But I will clarify for anyone else reading that my comments above (apart from the last paragraph) were not my opinion they were well established scientific facts.

[Dark_Delight]

Originally Posted by Invisible

I don't normally engage with rude and ignorant people.

But I will clarify for anyone else reading that my comments above (apart from the last paragraph) were not my opinion they were well established scientific facts.

No they are not, some study might of suggested it but that doesn't make it a well established scientific fact.

[Invisible]

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

No they are not, some study might of suggested it but that doesn't make it a well established scientific fact.

Well if you can cite a reference that refutes it, do so - otherwise, you are just expressing an ill-informed opinion that is incorrect and has no factual basis.

[Dark_Delight]

Originally Posted by Invisible

Well if you can cite a reference that refutes it, do so - otherwise, you are just expressing an ill-informed opinion that is incorrect and has no factual basis.

Before I do that you have to cite a reference otherwise you are just speaking out of your ass.

[Res Grata]

I probably shouldn't post in this thread, since my opinion and experiences obviously differ from the general consensus, but there are some things I just can't leave uncommented.

(As a note: There are actually a lot of things I'd like to adress, but for now I'll stick to some very few basic ones, because it takes rather long for me to type out all of my thoughts since English is not my native language. If I quote someone and disagree with him/her, please don't take it personally, I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I'm just looking for a way to connect my own thoughts to the rest of the thread.)

Maybe something personal first:

There are boys and girls as young as 14/15 wanting to or desiring or playing with BDSM and such games. With books and movies and pictures that are so easy to get compared to when I was a kid I can't blame them really.

It's not that easy.
I had my first "BDSM thoughts" (of course I didn't know that it was called BDSM back then, I didn't even know that it was called anything) when I was around 9 or 10, maybe even earlier. Long before I had any kind of sexual thoughts or experiences - and long, long before I had access to any pornographic or erotic material/sources.
I grew up in a normal family and led a normal life. I was never exposed to any kind of abuse or harrassment, not at home nor at school or through third parties (friends, relatives, and so on). Noone introduced me to the world of BDSM or even did as much as telling me that it existed.
The thoughts were there anyway.

The first time I tied up a girl (of the same age, if it matters to anyone), it was just a children's game. We were literally too young to have any sexual interest in each other or in anything at all, yet I enjoyed the act of tieing her up - a lot. Again, not in a sexual way. I enjoyed it like I enjoyed eating ice cream, riding a roller coaster or going to the movies.
The first time a girl kneeled at my feet (simply because there wasn't any room left on the couch we were sitting on), I was old enough to know about sexual pleasures - but again, while I enjoyed it a lot to see her like that and to experience this situation, it had nothing to do with sex in any way. It didn't give me a hard on and I didn't get off on the thought later. I just liked it.
The first time I actually "played" with a girl in a sexual BDSM context, I was 14 or 15 and she was of the same age. There were no books or movies or pictures or stories that inspired us, we had never seen or heard anything like that, it was just the two of us alone in a dark room and we did what felt right. She liked the feeling of being held down to the floor and being unable to move and I liked the feeling of holding her down and feeling her struggle; she liked being asked intimate questions and being verbally humiliated (in a very mild sense, mind you), and I liked doing that to her; she liked being spanked and to be made to crawl around on all fours, and I liked spanking her and leading her around the room by her hair.
We played a lot back then, experimented a lot (and yes, we did some stupid, irresponsible and potentially dangerous things, simply because we didn't know any better and had noone who could've warned us about certain dangers) and enjoyed each other a lot, in every sense of the word. Pretty much every BDSM-related experience one of us made during those years, we shared with each other, and luckily we never ran into any serious problems while playing. She grew up to be a perfectly ordinary woman who maybe still enjoys the occasional kinky play in her bedroom late at night but has no further interest in the world of BDSM, and I grew up to be a man living in a 24/7 TPE relationship with two wonderful girls. We both lead happy, healthy lives - and completely different ones.

BDSM is not something you get stuck with simply because you decided to try it at a certain age. BDSM is not something you get interested in because you saw it or heard about it somewhere and thought it sounds exciting. It's not some kind of drug or intoxicant or addiction. And it certainly doesn't inevitably ruin your life to start out young - there are many more different (and more important) factors involved in that.

I just don't get along with anyone that believes that underage s/m, or just underage sex, is acceptable. The point remains that it's illegal, immoral and downright dangerous. And here you are trying to justify it.

You may not like it, but "underage" is nothing but a term defined by law (as a side note: those laws differ greatly from country to country) and "underage" sex will happen regardless of how many laws a country has.
Now we can take the easy way out, point our fingers at the law and deceive ourselves into thinking that, just because it might be technically illegal and therefore shouldn't happen if everyone followed the laws to the letter, it's not a problem we have to deal with.
But it will happen. And it won't be just because some innocent underage kids get forced or lured into something they didn't really have interest in. Teenagers will have sex - just because they want to. Some of them will venture into the realms of BDSM and other kinks - just because they want to.
There's no way to stop it and the past has shown that it's more than just unhealthy to give kids (that will turn into said teenagers at some point, even if parents hate it) the impression that sexuality in general or their own sexuality especially is something that they should never talk about, never think about and never act on. They will make sexual experiences in one way or another and trying to force them into suppressing certain aspects of it because those are "not normal" is nothing but a safe way to screw up their psyche for the rest of their life.
I'm very happy that I learned early to accept myself, my feelings and what I want from life and potential partners as just that: myself. Leading a happy D/s-relationship is much better than forcing yourself into a "normal", socially accepted life until the suppression of your real feelings make you snap and you end up abusing your wife, your children or raping and torturing young women you snatched up on the street - after all, if your desires are something so disgusting in general, that little bit of rape or abuse doesn't make much of a difference in how bad you will feel about it afterwards anyway.

That may sound extreme, but the same principle applies to teenagers and trying to keep them away from their own sexuality. If you give them the feeling that BDSM in general is something horrible and disgusting that will screw up their life if they give in to their desires, you won't help them. To taboo a whole spectrum of sexuality will only make it harder for them to keep things in perspective once they break that taboo. A young couple that tries an innocent, old-fashioned over-the-knee spanking won't run into many dangers or problems. If they try the same with a bastinado with a bunch of canes and whips and floggers, they probably will. But if you lump it all together in their minds and only teach them that they shouldn't participate in any kind of BDSM-activity at all, just because they're BDSM-related and therefore bad, how are they supposed to see the difference? How are they supposed to judge what is good and harmless and what is dangerous and over-the-top, if they don't dare to talk about it to anyone, because they think it's all just some big perverted porrdige without any shades or nuances that they shouldn't be involved with anyway if they were "good kids" to start with?
Sooner or later they will break that taboo and when they do, they won't be able to tell "right" from "wrong", because in their mind all of it is "wrong" already anyway. And that's the real danger.

Education is key. Don't try to suppress something as powerful as the sexuality of a person, because that's not only a lost cause in general but also psychologically harmful for the person in question. Instead help them to deal with it, help them to understand it and help them to accept themselves and their feelings enough that they are able to ask for (and accept) help or guidance when they have doubts or questions - and that they are confident enough to raise their voice if someone tries to force them into something they don't feel ready for or feel threatened by. That way, many physical and psychological dangers can and will be avoided, no matter how old they are.

They will be experimenting, even if it's against the law and even if it's against the morals of some people. We can't change that - instead we should at least do our best to allow them to do so in a safe way and environment. Be someone they can turn to, not someone that looks down on them and makes them feel bad about feelings they can't control anyway.

[Dark_Delight]

Thank you finally someone with some sense. I'd also like to bring up another point after reading your post. Banning everyone under 18 from this site is going to cause them to experiment without the benefit of advice on how to go about it safely. Like teaching abstinence only sex ed, it doesn't work.

[SirDraco7]

Originally Posted by Res Grata

It's not that easy.

You misunderstood my point with this to some extent. And Yes, it is easy.

When I(and maybe you, though that is a guess) was a kid, heck when I graduated HS, there was no such thing as cell phones. Heck I remember being in Junior or senior year and being excited about a cordless phone!
Internet was in it's infancy at the time and my family didn't have great access to the internet.
My only access to porn and BDSM was sneaking into and reading my fathers collection. That is it. Other than that I had to have a GF(which I didn't have) or watch a cheezy 80's horror movie to see a naked girl.


Today? Every kid has a cell phone, and a cell phone camera. And at least a couple times a year, in my area I hear reports of incidents of nude self pics of students flowing around this or that school. I'm sure that's just not my area also. Esp with facebook and digital cameras. And that isn't even Porn.
I could like you 20 websites that show nudity or have full porn on it. redtube for example. And there are hundreds like that. Plus torrents and other such downloading programs.
Then you have websites like GetDare and hundreds of others. How many of the 18 and 19 year old posters are actually 14 and 15 who lied about their age and clicked 'yes' when the box asked if they are 18?
I'm sure there are a couple. There is no real way to prove otherwise unless you start collecting credit cards.

So easy? hell yes it's easy.


As for what you were getting at.. Yes BDSM isn't for anyone or everyone. and Yes you don't need porn or stories or other such things to get introduced to it, but for many people it's how they are. It's how I was.


But I agree with your second point. There is nothing illegal about underage persons being involved sexually or with BDSM.
Which is where MY point was, education is much more valuable than trying to stop them. They will just go around you if you try to stand in your way. So it's better, in my opinion to show and guide them the best safest and proper ways over preaching abstance.
Kind of like teaching safe sex in schools. teach and preach safe BDSM. ::shrugs::

[Invisible]

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

Before I do that you have to cite a reference otherwise you are just speaking out of your ass.

Blah blah blah the world is flat - just 'cos i said so.

[Dark_Delight]

Originally Posted by Invisible

Blah blah blah the world is flat - just 'cos i said so.

How can I rebut your source without you know your source?

[Res Grata]

Originally Posted by SirDraco7

When I(and maybe you, though that is a guess) was a kid, heck when I graduated HS, there was no such thing as cell phones. Heck I remember being in Junior or senior year and being excited about a cordless phone!
Internet was in it's infancy at the time and my family didn't have great access to the internet.
My only access to porn and BDSM was sneaking into and reading my fathers collection. That is it. Other than that I had to have a GF(which I didn't have) or watch a cheezy 80's horror movie to see a naked girl.

Oh, I wasn't trying to say it's not easy for a youngling to get his hands on some porn (even on the most, let's say exotic kind of pornography) - I absolutely agree with you there, it's much more readily available today.

I just wanted to point out that it's not just a matter of "don't let them know it exists and they won't be interested in it", because, well, that's not how it works
For some people it might have been like that, but most people (including myself) report that their "odd" thoughts and interests date back to very early childhood moments, long before they were exposed to any kind of "information" (even if it's just a bad porn flick) on the subject. The availability of material might work as a catalyst (and I'm not one to judge whether this is a good or a bad thing), but it's certainly not the cause.

To be honest, I tend to look at BDSM like I look at homosexuality for example. It's just the way some people are like, not a matter of right and wrong or kinky and normal.
It's not the same for everyone of course, some don't enjoy it at all, some just want to have their occasional kinky moment to spice up their sex life and others really only find true joy and happiness in BDSM - all is fine, I just find it odd when people make it sound like the latter would be some kind of disease.

Which is where MY point was, education is much more valuable than trying to stop them. They will just go around you if you try to stand in your way. So it's better, in my opinion to show and guide them the best safest and proper ways over preaching abstance.

Very true.

[Invisible]

Originally Posted by Dark_Delight

How can I rebut your source without you know your source?

Oh I'm sorry I thought when you accused me of talking out of my ass (sic) that you actually new shit from clay.

For the intelligent readers on GD if you want to know more about "teenage brain development" try googling and you will find a plethora of reliable articles. It is actually quite an interesting subject and I wish I had known about it when I was a teenager - maybe I wouldn't have blamed my parents for everything like others.