Soft limits

[SubMissChievous]

I thought about starting this thread for quite some time & a couple of weeks ago in a reply in Fiendish’s thread The Fiend’s Eye: Punishment & DisciplineI stated the following:

Personally, I don’t like… no, take that back, I hate the term “soft” limit. To me, there’s no such thing. My limits are limits & they have the “No Trespassing” tag on them.

My reply was mostly in reaction to vampyrepain’s post which I found interesting & it made me think about this subject both before my reply & after as well. After relexion, it seems like I've "changed my mind" a bit or at least look at it differently :)

I suppose the simple solution to this is to continue the discussion of limits as D/s relationship progresses. I guess when I think it out well, I am driving at the issue that many people here use the word limit to refer to dislikes, which is very different. Because of this confusion of terms, it might be appropriate for a Dom to ask a sub to do something against their “limits" as a punishment for the exact reason that it is something the sub strongly dislikes.

Now I do very much agree that some slaves use or mix up what a soft limit & a dislike is. Some Masters do too as a matter of fact. I think this confusion is a bit normal especially for those who are new to this lifestyle as they are experimenting in order to find their own limits. But also, from conversations I’ve had with some other members about this, it seems that most have their own definition.

After replying I thought of what my own definitions of both dislikes, soft limits & hard limits would be. (I like having my own personal views about anything anyway :p ) I came up with these definitions:

Dislikes: For me a dislike is an activity that I don’t like but that doesn’t make me feel bad once it’s done with. At the moment I’m being asked to do something I dislike I may either be a bit nervous or less enthusiastic although I would usually not object to.

Soft limits: Now to me a “soft” limit (still resent that term but can’t come up with a better one…) is something that not only I dislike or hate but that makes me very uncomfortable for various reasons. Those are activities that are most likely to make me feel bad after performing them & can have negative effects on me either short-term or long-term.

Personally, I believe that if those were to be bent it always should be discussed between a Master & a slave no matter the situation, be it a punishment or just “play”…

Hard limits: Well, I don’t think I need to elaborate much on this one. I think for most it means something that a slave will not do under any circumstance & that those should always be respected.

All that being said & according to my own definitions I do have some soft limits. What I’m interested in is to know what other members’ thoughts, views & even experiences if any are about them :) Personally, I have made a list of dislikes, soft limits & hard limits asking myself for each why each fitted in one category rather than another. Interestingly, most soft limits were things that I had tried & had some significantly negative experiences with.

Now I’ve already mentioned that I like having my own views & opinions but I enjoy just as much reading/hearing others’ thoughts which is the purpose of this thread. I hope this open a healthy & interesting discussion & becomes an helpful tool both for those who are new into D/s (and the not-so-new too :) )

[Fiendish]

I give you a cookie for this post :p

You are spot-on for hating the term soft limits, but like you, I have yet to come across a better term for it, so I use it.

Many things affect what someone would define as a soft limit, so each person will view it slightly differently, but in the end, it's roughly the same thing.

[TensionRoom101]

I see it as my job to push against my subs' limits. However there is a HUUUUGE caveat to that.

First I help her define what her limits are, and importantly the reason why. If, via discussion, NLP or any of the other tools in my box, I discern that they are not her limits at all, but societal or closed minded preconceptions with no basis in fact, then we will over time explore those boundaries and replace them with her personal limits. And I do mean hers, not mine.

Seldom do my subs have spoken of limits though, other than some of the more obvious ones. They recognise that I have no intention of causing them emotional, mental or physical pain. My role is to add to their quality of life, not diminish it.

Soft limits are a good indication for a newbie who is making first contact with a Dom to share her concerns and express the areas that she is reluctant or hesitant to step into straight away, but will renegotiate those once a relationship of trust has been built up.

One of my submissives had less strict limits with me than she did her own husband, because she trusted me to read her, anticipate and adapt to her changing psychological state during a session. It is not always 'the limit' that is hard or soft, but the person the sub gives custody of that limit to.

Mike

[Merlin]

I have already said (in other threads) i am no fan of the phrase soft limit.
A limit is a limit and cant be soft ...
Lets begin with what a limit is for me... a limit is a a activity that will cause mental injuries (mental wounds) to someone. And the last thing you should want as a Dom/Master is to cause this to your slave. So limit means "no go"!

But what are these "Soft limits"?... "soft limits" are mainly 2 things... A really big dislike or a fear. Both has nothing to do with a limit.

As the master it is important to find your slaves limits. What some people seam to forget is the fact that most people dont know their own limits
First I help her define what her limits are, and importantly the reason why. If, via discussion, NLP or any of the other tools in my box, I discern that they are not her limits at all, but societal or closed minded preconceptions with no basis in fact, then we will over time explore those boundaries and replace them with her personal limits. And I do mean hers, not mine.That is exactly what you should do. But i also want to add a little thing here. It all sounds like all you do is take away the "limits" that are no real ones. But you also should be aware that you sometimes will also find new limits that the sub/slave was not aware of before (although the other way around is more common). You, the master, are responsible to see these "no crossing" signs. The things your slave is telling you can be a good guideline, and you should follow them for quite some time before you even think of questioning them! (As you will need to really know and trust each other to do it)

This is also the reason why i find it strange if i read something like "You have 3 limits" in some of the adds of some "Masters" here on the board.

[TensionRoom101]

This is also the reason why i find it strange if i read something like "You have 3 limits" in some of the adds of some "Masters" here on the board.
Well, I can see the reason why a Dom would use that proviso in an advert to separate the 'pseudo subs' who have a list as long as your arm of things 'they won't do' who are quite frankly very hard work. I agree with you though, it's not really something I would do. But then, I really wouldn't consider myself much of a Dom if I needed to advertise anyway.

The thing that concerns me most here, and on collarme, IC, B.com and all the others is the number of 'Masters' who are in their teens. Without wishing to be overly patronising, I find it remarkable that these people have studied sufficient psychology, sociology and healing to Master their own psychoses, never mind applying that to another Spirit.

Mike

[Merlin]

[...]The thing that concerns me most here, and on collarme, IC, B.com and all the others is the number of 'Masters' who are in their teens. Without wishing to be overly patronising, I find it remarkable that these people have studied sufficient psychology, sociology and healing to Master their own psychoses, never mind applying that to another Spirit.I think the problem is not that they want to be a "Master" but more the fact that some seam to think they already know everything about it and are so experienced because they had been a master for the impressive time of 3 years. I am older than many others here. And i think i also may have more experience than some of them (although my online experience is quite limited) Still i am far away from the point i would call myself experienced... there are way to many things i still can and have to learn and even if i go on another 20 years i still will not know everything. And although i hate to play the age card, i see that someone with 17 or 18 can't have the experience to get into some of the more serious areas. There are levels where i am really not sure about if i am ready to go and i had 10 years more time to learn...

[TensionRoom101]

It all sounds like all you do is take away the "limits" that are no real ones. But you also should be aware that you sometimes will also find new limits that the sub/slave was not aware of before (although the other way around is more common). You, the master, are responsible to see these "no crossing" signs. The things your slave is telling you can be a good guideline, and you should follow them for quite some time before you even think of questioning them! (As you will need to really know and trust each other to do it)

I agree wholeheartedly that there are many limits a sub often has that she is wholly unaware of. Actually, there's even more to it than that. My 22 year adult BDSM experience and 10 years fetish club lifestyle runs in parallel with my 20 years experience as a healer, teacher and counsellor. I have had to spend waaay too many hours repairing and reprogramming young girls who've bee seriously fucked up by incompetent Doms. Many come onto the scene and have dreams or desires because they've read some shite on here or literotica and have decided they need that to be done to them. The abuser (not Dom or Master) sees that as his opportunity to degrade and diminish her.

I'll go beyond that though. The majority of self professed 'doms' I've encountered have zero social skills, an ineptitude for human-emotional interaction, and use the BDSM label to hide their immaturity behind.

A common request by young submissives is the gang bang slut and the used whore, and they have absolutely no idea how much it's going to fuck them up later in life. Of the dozens who've expressed this as a 'must have' scenario, there are only 3 that I knew were in a position to understand and deal with the consequences, and of that only 2 did that (under my care anyway. What they did subsequently I don't always get to find out. You can only watch over your charges some of the time after all).

You can protect girls from yourself. Fortunately in my position I get to protect them from a lot of others too. Sadly there's only so much you can do to protect them from themselves.

[kabuto]

I think what can be concluded is that "soft limits" could also be called "extreme dislikes", and it's up to the Master to work out when and when not these are appropriate. I would expect that most of the time they are not.

[TensionRoom101]

The first danger there though is that a Dom should NEVER start out with expectations of what is a valid limit, without knowing what in the submissive's psychosis brought them to that position in the first place.

When it comes to other people's wellbeing, conclusions are potentially very damaging.