Gor - Idiocy or Adaptation?

[SubMissChievous]

The funny thing about Gor is that, while this D/s sub-culture was inspired by John Norman's novels, neither the author or his books have anything to do with BDSM whatsoever. His books were published at a time where the feminist movement was at it's highest and inspired a sort of counter-culture that gave us those Gor novels, and movies like The Stepford Wives (the 1975 original version, not that horrible remake featuring Nicole Kidman...)

Some people choose to live their lifestyle based on these fantasy novels based on a so-called «Natural Order» that considers that females are inferior in all aspect to males. I could never personally accept any «Natural Order» of anything because I don't consider males to be superior or Dominants to be superior either for that matter... but meh... to each their own I suppose...

Where I start having a problem with Gor is when some tries to force their beliefs and lifestyles on others... Those who have been here for a while may remember this thread. Those are the kind of people I stay away from. But to the Goreans' defense I could say that there are just as much non-Goreans who are like this guy... You could say that I have more of a problem with narrow-mindedness and condescendence than I actually have with Gor

As I said I could never personally ever find anything in this sub-culture that would come close to reflect my own personal philosophy regarding D/s... But hey everything in life has a good side and I guess so does Gor... Without it, there would have never been any House Plants of Gor!

[Anjelen]

Originally Posted by Chloe

The funny thing about Gor is that, while this D/s sub-culture was inspired by John Norman's novels, neither the author or his books have anything to do with BDSM whatsoever. His books were published at a time where the feminist movement was at it's highest and inspired a sort of counter-culture that gave us those Gor novels, and movies like The Stepford Wives (the 1975 original version, not that horrible remake featuring Nicole Kidman...)

Some people choose to live their lifestyle based on these fantasy novels based on a so-called «Natural Order» that considers that females are inferior in all aspect to males. I could never personally accept any «Natural Order» of anything because I don't consider males to be superior or Dominants to be superior either for that matter... but meh... to each their own I suppose...

Where I start having a problem with Gor is when some tries to force their beliefs and lifestyles on others... Those who have been here for a while may remember this thread. Those are the kind of people I stay away from. But to the Goreans' defense I could say that there are just as much non-Goreans who are like this guy... You could say that I have more of a problem with narrow-mindedness and condescendence than I actually have with Gor

As I said I could never personally ever find anything in this sub-culture that would come close to reflect my own personal philosophy regarding D/s... But hey everything in life has a good side and I guess so does Gor... Without it, there would have never been any House Plants of Gor!

God i remember that guy. Made me laugh - but didn't quite make me laugh as hard as the House Plants of Gor thing.

Oh. My. God. I think i bust a rib. Like, totally.

[SubMissChievous]

Originally Posted by Anjelen

God i remember that guy. Made me laugh - but didn't quite make me laugh as hard as the House Plants of Gor thing.

Oh. My. God. I think i bust a rib. Like, totally.

Then you may enjoy as well Golfers of Gor

[Night-1991]

Originally Posted by Chloe

Then you may enjoy as well Golfers of Gor

Oh jebus. That made me laugh hard. xD

[Leopard]

Originally Posted by Chloe

As I said I could never personally ever find anything in this sub-culture that would come close to reflect my own personal philosophy regarding D/s... But hey everything in life has a good side and I guess so does Gor... Without it, there would have never been any House Plants of Gor!

House Plants of Gor is genius.


*buys a cactus to water*

[Anjelen]

... Oh dear god. I must find all of these XXXX-of Gor stories.

ALL of them.

[SubMissChievous]

Originally Posted by Anjelen

... Oh dear god. I must find all of these XXXX-of Gor stories.

ALL of them.

Gay, Bejeweled, Nazi Bikers of Gor

I haven't even read it yet but I must admit just the title itself is priceless

[Anjelen]

Wow. Even in the first paragraph the writer reminds me heavilly of Mojo-Jojo of Powerpuff girls fame.

And so I, as the master, was the master, and she, as the slave, was not the master. That meant that she was the slave, not being the master.

[Night-1991]

And so I, as the master, was the master, and she, as the slave, was not the master. That meant that she was the slave, not being the master.

:/ Do Goreans have to make everything confusing or just plain dumb?

[Leopard]

And so I, as the master, was the master, and she, as the slave, was not the master. That meant that she was the slave, not being the master.

Team Rocket had it coming.

[MasterThx]

Gorean lifestyle, aka roleplaying fantasy and total control exchange.
What is wrong with roleplaying? And what is wrong with TCE?
You can bash Gor, but you’re also bashing BDSM at the same time cause all Gor is, is a fantasy story with certain elements of BDSM.


“1. I find the Men who're into Gor very mysoginistic.”

Mysoginistic means man that hate women or the other way around... If a man hates something, he sure doesn’t want to be in the presence of that hated thing.. so how can men who like Gor be mysoginistic?

“2. And the Females into Gor...they're...i don't know, like robots. Just no personality.”

Do you even have experience in the Gorean lifestyle? Every 'Gorean slave' I’ve gotten to know had a different personality.

Gorean slavery is about total control exchange, and that is exactly the same kink of slaves outside of Gor too, being controlled. If you have a problem with people who want to kneel in front of a Master, you should think again about your decision between a vanilla and D/s relationship.


To get to Anjelens post, living the fantasy or adapting the style.. I think it’s what you prefer personally. If you just want to roleplay you can live the fantasy.. it would be the same as roleplaying Star Wars with elements of BDSM.. Respect if you like roleplaying.
Do you pick certain elements of Gor to make your D/s relationship more interesting.. also respect.
Nobody is wrong in doing what they like to do.. as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone.

[Night-1991]

Originally Posted by MasterThx

Gorean lifestyle, aka roleplaying fantasy and total control exchange.
What is wrong with roleplaying? And what is wrong with TCE?
You can bash Gor, but you’re also bashing BDSM at the same time cause all Gor is, is a fantasy story with certain elements of BDSM.


“1. I find the Men who're into Gor very mysoginistic.”

Mysoginistic means man that hate women or the other way around... If a man hates something, he sure doesn’t want to be in the presence of that hated thing.. so how can men who like Gor be mysoginistic?

“2. And the Females into Gor...they're...i don't know, like robots. Just no personality.”

Do you even have experience in the Gorean lifestyle? Every 'Gorean slave' I’ve gotten to know had a different personality.

Gorean slavery is about total control exchange, and that is exactly the same kink of slaves outside of Gor too, being controlled. If you have a problem with people who want to kneel in front of a Master, you should think again about your decision between a vanilla and D/s relationship.

Dude, off my back. I'm staying firmly with D/s. When someone said to me "Some Gorean Masters are arrogant", they could be right.

I'm not calling you out. I just feel sour towards Goreans for my experiences i've had talking to them. And i don't have a problem with people wanting to kneel....but when they just want to become brainwashed, i feel for their safety and wellbeing.

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by MasterThx

Gorean lifestyle, aka roleplaying fantasy and total control exchange.
What is wrong with roleplaying? And what is wrong with TCE?
You can bash Gor, but you’re also bashing BDSM at the same time cause all Gor is, is a fantasy story with certain elements of BDSM.
[...]

I think you hit a few important things here but also see it a bit to one sided. Gor is a fantasy that in some aspects has nothing to do with reality. In some way not different to pet play or adult play or prison play (i could go on here) and yes like you said if you see it as just another form of roleplay there is no real problem.
There are the 2nd group of gore people that basically only spice up a normal total power exchange relationship with ideas out of the books. TPE is a tricky thing and sure nothing for everyone but still also here are no real problems coming from, as long as people see the books and fantasy as topping and not as base. I totally agree with you on that part ...

The problem is you missed a few people that claim to be gor (maybe because you don't see them all as gor)

- People that take part of the the books ideas and think the whole world should be like that. All females are inferior no matter of their own choosing. Enforcing that on them is the right of men and should be done to every women and not even that but that in secret they even chafe for it. This is the group that were called "mysoginistic" by others i suppose.
While not every gorean is like that the philosophy of gor seams to attract that kind of people so the amount is in general a lot higher than in other areas of bdsm (although they sure can be found everywhere)

- people that see their way as the only one (again sure not a gor only problem but the dogmatic structure attracts them more) gor as kind of religion where others that don't follow have to be converted to (see chloe`s link...)

- the last is a problem of every form of TPE but gets stronger with the roleplaying aspect of gor... people that see the fantasy world and how easy people interact in there . Letting them believe that it is the way it should be and that it is so easy and almost "light".
These people now get confronted with the reality... and abusers that see the roleplay world as good excuse to be abusive... or masters that are overwhelmed with a TPE that is sure not what they are able to provide.
Gor can be problem if people who get into it out of the roleplay that are not made for a real TPE what is sure not easy and sure not "natural" for 99.9% of the people.

gorean masters are not all abusive mysoginistic!! for sure not.
But the gor world is attractive for the abusive mysoginistic out there... and these are the ones people make bad experience with...

[Leopard]

Originally Posted by Merlin

gorean masters are not all abusive mysoginistic!! for sure not. But the gor world is attractive for the abusive mysoginistic out there... and these are the ones people make bad experience with...

My problem with this is that you could just as easily say that there are abusive mysoginistic BDSM Masters out there. And there are. And there are abusive vanilla people, and...

[Anjelen]

@MasterTHX - 'Mysogyny' is either the hatred of, or the contempt for, women - though the meaning of the word 'Mysogyny' intended here is the meaning of contempt, used as a catch-all and genderless term - slaves seen as being as lesser than their owners whom, as far as i can recall the Gor series, wich i must admit i last read when i was 10 are by and large of the opposite sex of their owers.

This, in my view, flies rather in the face of one of the core tenets of BDSM - being equality.

And as for Gorean slaves being 'Automata' - I have by and large not had the experience that Kajira or Kajirus become mindless drones, though i certainly have had the experience of the greater amount of them being... Subdued; speaking of themselves only in third person, as if they are an object, and beginning every third sentence with "This Kaji(ra's/rus') Master says..." as if they have no opinion themselves.

Personally, this makes me cringe just a bit every time i hear it.

Again, each to their own, and while i must admit i've all but exclusively met Goreans in 'formal' settings, it was entirely possible that the ones i met were playing their part more than they normally would, i suppose.

As i've stated above;

Originally Posted by Anjelen

So many people have adopted the style, incorporated Gor into their daily lives and live happilly doing so, not roleplaying as such, but mutually enjoying the many rules, rituals and trappings of the world as it was described by Mr. Norman - quite a few of whom were accomplished dominants and submissives long before they even found out about Gor. They had knowledge, they had experience, and they used Gor as a framework to cast these into - thus alterig and evolving the fantasy into something that can not be denied as invalid simply because it began as fantasy.

Certainly, quite a number of idiots explain their idiocy by claiming themselves Goreans - but that does not mean that all Goreans are idiots.

Just my pennyworth.