Trust System

[Stellz]

Originally Posted by Id.

That's why I also think the emphasis should be on educating those who are willing to take the time to learn rather than on creating a caste system of sorts on the site. All the time and effort it takes to build and monitor that badge system could be used creating guidance for new users. A system of guidance and help would be a lot more inviting to new users than a series of hurdles to jump through in order to become accepted as legitimate slave or master candidates. Perhaps we should think about creating a getDare BDSM Wiki instead.

THIS.

The idea of a badge system and council is alright in theory, but I don't think it would work well in the long run. I've been on this site for a couple years now and have seen way too much fighting, bickering, and mudslinging for something like this to work. Inevitably, not everyone will really be happy with the members chosen for this council. I know a lot of the regulars that are liked but also disliked by a lot of people. Fights about immature issues break out in chat more often than they should. Instead of the fights ending in their normal way, it'd probably spiral into people threatening to take away people's badge status or give them a bad review.

This system would also alienate newer/more shy members. A good sub that's new might leave because they were passed over for someone with a gold standard. There's also mention of demoting people that leave the community for a while. A person's trustworthiness should not be measured by how much time they spend on the site.

Going back to the idea of the council, I honestly think this is the worst part of it. As I said before, there would be lots of arguments about who would be good enough to serve. Sure, you could do a majority rules vote, but the regulars aren't exactly known by everyone on the site. Not only that, but I don't think someone should have to prove their trustworthiness to a random group of people. That's something that is between the dom and sub, no one else.

All of the problems that subs/doms have on this site could be avoided if everyone was more careful. More time should be devoted to teaching safety than anything else.

TL;DR: I think people on this site are far too immature and petty to be able to handle something like this. It's something that will take a long time to implement and it would only serve to cause more fights/alienate new people.

[Ranzid]

ok .. first up ID:

http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=38317
http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=52380
http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=29350

these are links to the BDSM guide ( a very good starting point )
the "what to know before you start getdare"
and the posting rules thread.

the BDSM wiki of which you speak has been created already and most users seem to ignore it, the whole idea of someone receiving a badge is that it shows that you help and assit new people to integrate into the community and educate them about the scene and so if you didnt you wouldn't get a badge, and so the system itself is designed to help newcomers by its very nature. The idea about the visitor message "Rate your dom/sub" is interesting but alot of people dont even check the profiles and just like your complaining about with this system it would be open to abuse.

"Is this a silver bullet to prevent abuse? No way, but that's just it. With thousands of users, the vast majority of whom just want to get off as quickly as possible, there really is no way to stop even a fraction of the problems. It's hard enough to even convince new people to put the most basic of information in their ads.

That's why I also think the emphasis should be on educating those who are willing to take the time to learn rather than on creating a caste system of sorts on the site. All the time and effort it takes to build and monitor that badge system could be used creating guidance for new users. A system of guidance and help would be a lot more inviting to new users than a series of hurdles to jump through in order to become accepted as legitimate slave or master candidates. Perhaps we should think about creating a getDare BDSM Wiki instead."

No one is saying that this system would eliminate ALL abuse overnight , but to say that an organised community of users dedicated to looking after newcomers and making things more safe WONT do anything is cynical at best, its like saying there is no point doing anything as no one will listen. Even if this system only helps 1 newcomer to not be hurt then it will be a success.

your alternative proposed system takes away the oversight of the system and so any disputes or troubles would be lumped onto the already overworked mods.

ANY system of control especially ones that will require some work will not please everyone .. thats how life works sadly.

The proposed system has been designed as best we can to make it not be a group of friends making a clique but if you have any ideas as to how we can make it more fair then please say so.

[luvNgrl]

The idea of the system is to hopefully not just have all the regulars you see in chat on the council. This would be different people from all over the site. The idea is that needing so many endorsements would help control it just being your friends voting for you. I can personally say that I wouldnt vote for the majority of people I talk to in chat each day.

There is never gonna be a way to create a perfect system with as many people as there is on this site. The fights are gonna always happen with or without this. People just need to learn to be more mature. This system is designed to help the new people come into the getDare bdsm community easier.

When I came into getdare I had no idea what was and wasnt safe. I just responded to messages I got and ended up in some bad situations. A system like this would help make it easier for new people to know that this person is trusted and can go to them for help or guidance or possible be in a M/s relationship with them.This system isnt saying that gold members are any better subs/masters than other members just that they are in fact known to be trusted by others. Having a higher badge does not show you are better just that you are more known to be trusted. Because of this having no badge does not make you any less likely to get a master/sub, it just says you may have not been around for as long as the others with the badges.

[Rascal.]

I get the criticisms that have been suggested, and i agree that it will be a lot of hard work. But the fact that there is a good idea in place that we can work on is great.

I think that with hard work and co-operation it can work and if you need anyone to help send me a message!

[fromo]

@Id:

The point of the badge system is to enable new users and current users to be able to seek advice from readily avalibly people, by highlighting their standing amoungst the comunity.
Curently, someone new would either just ask random people or ask a mod, but the mods already get bombarded by item after item dayly, from spam, ideots, general questions, ect. ect.
This is a way to filter somme of that away from the mods, and for users to be able to give back to the site.

Would it make some users seem higher then others? likely, as would any other type of useful system introduced, the only way for anything like this to work, is to highlight trusted members, to have advice saught from them.

Of course, there would need to be a introductory statement saying that 'just because a user doesn't hold a badge rating, does not mean that they are not nessisarily trust worthy in any way, the badge holders are member who have been here for a time, and been deemed able to contribute advice to other members'

Perhapse worded different, but you get the point of what I'm saying there.


@Stellz:

A single user could not take away the badge status of another, thats the point of a 'council' group, the decision would be made between the group based on events ect. not childish bickering, that can often happen within chat.

The point of demoting, was in teh sense, of removing the power element they held whiles they where active, and trialing them for a time, to be sure they;re not just going to disappear again, their place may of been filled in their absence to make up for the numbers, if 4 members disappeared for several months, that would leave a big gap that would need to be filled rather 'fast', so that the voting element could be more fair to its users.
The time would also be taken to re-evaluate that the user still has the sites best interest or not.


The point of this system is not to alienate, but to assist new comers, thats the entire idea. The majority of gold badge holders, would already be happy owning doms or owned subs, so they would not be looking to take on others for the most part. I can see where your saying about someone being passed up, but that can be the same for someone with more posts then another, because thats shows they're more active on the site, thats in a sense, the adsact same form of alienation.

Choosing the council would be something discussed with the mods, seeing as they spend most of the time looking throughout the forums, they would know people to highlight as candidates from the main forums, there would be several from the chats, and of course several mods for direct links to things.
Just basicly looking at members who are seen as the more trusted of the comunity already. The votes would be taken as group rulings over things over other matters, and yes, there would be discussion over things that people don't agree with, and they have their chance to put that forwards.

[Id.]

Any effort to prevent abusive relationships is commendable, and I do hope that the getDare community can find more effective ways to come together and help. The question is how to accomplish this most effectively and with a minimum of controversy and low maintenance requirements. The pages you linked to are definitely a good start, but I still think the effort of volunteers would be better spent improving and promoting those.

I also think that some of what you are proposing could be achieved within the existing site framework with a fraction of the effort. An endorsement message system would only require an additional tab in the profile, and would be no more prone to abuse or spam than the existing visitor messages. There is also the "Elite S/M" area. I do remember Nellybell saying that discussion in there is a bit dull, but the criteria for membership already gives its members some additional credibility and relies on mods who are already trusted getDare members. Even if that subforum is less than amazing, a "badge" could be created for it and made more prominent on people's profiles or slave/master ads. There is also an S/M advice thread that could be expanded and promoted better.

[Ranzid]

the idea that someone's profile might have endorsements or their "standing" is a good idea , but promoting the threads I think is flawed , if a newcomer came in and wasnt sure about things to simply say " go read these threads" seems exclusive and to be honest quite lazy, to actually ask questions of someone who you know to trust is many many times better, and to know to to trust needs some form of label.
the endorsement system you propose would require people to look at someone's profile and read through all their "reviews" just like ebay feedback , but even ebay feedback gives people badges so everyone can quickly recognise them as trusted.

I think incorporating the public endorsements onto members profiles is a good idea but only in addition to the proposed system , and yes it will be high maintainace and wont be easy .. but good things are never easy.

[dan1mal]

Damn Ranzid, you sexy

[Ranzid]

thankyou , I like to think so.

[Puppykind]

Originally Posted by Id.

There is also the "Elite S/M" area. I do remember Nellybell saying that discussion in there is a bit dull, but the criteria for membership already gives its members some additional credibility and relies on mods who are already trusted getDare members.

Woah, thanks Id! I didn't know about this, being a relatively new member. I like this a lot as well.

Ranzid, luvngrl, if a possible framework already exists like this, would either of you consider building off it or changing it instead of starting a whole new thing?

[Ranzid]

I think the idea for building from the elite s/m system sounds perfect puppykind , it would save us alot of work in creating new systems, but its more of a logistical thing rather than a conceptual one.

[fromo]

Originally Posted by Puppykind

Woah, thanks Id! I didn't know about this, being a relatively new member. I like this a lot as well.

Ranzid, luvngrl, if a possible framework already exists like this, would either of you consider building off it or changing it instead of starting a whole new thing?

There isn't anything highlighting who the elite members are though, I have no idea which members have access to that section of the site, other then the mods of the site.
You could link the two, fairly easily, but everything that is talked about in this system would still likely need to happen, aka, highlighting who is, the threads, links ect.

[slutpupp]

this really could help a lot of people, i would say subs the most as they are potentially risking a lot with doms, the potential of humiliating pictures etc, and a lot of people interested in being a sub may be put of by this fear, but having had a lot of people endorse someone and say this person is a very trustworthy dom can help alleviate a lot of fear that a potential sub may have, as this was a fear i had when first getting into the scene, what if the person i was doing this stuff for was a dick and somehow got my address etc and i have been lucky enough now to find fromo :P.
this is just from a subs point of view of course, but it would help doms because there are really good doms who get a new sub, have one or two sessions/tasks and then the sub just disappears or something like that which after awhile could put this good dom off taking on any more people.
overall, me thinks its a very good idea and i shall help in anyway you need me to

[Leopard]

No it won't work because the people who dive into bad abusive relationships could have avoided doing so by reading the many forms of information that are readily available and waiting and talking to people first.

Having a fancy star system isn't going to change the fact that people just want to dive on in while being well aware that they have no idea what they're doing, generally because some douche pmed them the moment they joined the site (the reason I asked depp to code it so that all new members now get a welcome pm warning them of such.)

[fromo]

Originally Posted by Leopard

No it won't work because the people who dive into bad abusive relationships could have avoided doing so by reading the many forms of information that are readily available and waiting and talking to people first.

Having a fancy star system isn't going to change the fact that people just want to dive on in while being well aware that they have no idea what they're doing, generally because some douche pmed them the moment they joined the site (the reason I asked depp to code it so that all new members now get a welcome pm warning them of such.)

But it still leaves them the option to ask members with experience about things, if they're unsure over something ect.