Old 01-23-2020, 09:00 AM   #1
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Originally Posted by new and willing View Post
I’ve seen them post before and they aren’t banned, so they are to some extent legit. Take that info however you want.
The fact that this user is not banned does not mean anything. Mods are very slow here and might as well be that no one has outed this person as fake.
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Old 01-23-2020, 12:10 PM   #2
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The fact that this user is not banned does not mean anything. Mods are very slow here and might as well be that no one has outed this person as fake.
It isn't our job to check that people aren't fake. It isn't that we are "slow", it is that we are busy and don't have time to message every user to verify that they are who they say they are. And there are no rules against being "fake" .



* I have changed the title of the ad to reflect that you are looking for a male slave.
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Old 01-23-2020, 02:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
It isn't our job to check that people aren't fake. It isn't that we are "slow", it is that we are busy and don't have time to message every user to verify that they are who they say they are. And there are no rules against being "fake" .



* I have changed the title of the ad to reflect that you are looking for a male slave.
It was not my intention to say that the mods should verify people. That's impossible, other than only allowing people who verified themselves to post (like reddit does in some subreddits). And by being slow I meant that there are lots of ads that are such low quality, that they should be deleted. If those posters were honest and trust able they would post better ads.

But I certainly hope that there are rules for being fake. Men posing as women should not be tolerated for example. If it is, you might as well close the ads section.

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Old 01-23-2020, 03:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by carelessprogram View Post
It was not my intention to say that the mods should verify people. That's impossible, other than only allowing people who verified themselves to post (like reddit does in some subreddits). And by being slow I meant that there are lots of ads that are such low quality, that they should be deleted. If those posters were honest and trust able they would post better ads.

But I certainly hope that there are rules for being fake. Men posing as women should not be tolerated for example. If it is, you might as well close the ads section.
We cannot prevent somebody from saying they are male or female, especially in today's society where your gender is not reflective of how you were born physically. It is not our responsibility to make sure that people are telling the truth. That onus is on the person who is going to share their personal and intimate details with them.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:24 AM   #5
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We cannot prevent somebody from saying they are male or female, especially in today's society where your gender is not reflective of how you were born physically. It is not our responsibility to make sure that people are telling the truth. That onus is on the person who is going to share their personal and intimate details with them.
So, lets say I (as cis man) post an ad saying I am a female looking for a man. I refuse to verify but demand pics from the men responding to my ad. One way or another I get outed by someone (perhaps because they read this post where I say I'm a cis man) and this person tells everyone else here. Are my actions perfectly fine with you and can I keep on posting here? Keep in mind I lied about who I am and made people feel very unsafe in the end.

Sure, people have their own responsibility and that should not be forgotten. But I feel once a person has been proven to be fake (or is obviously fake) this site and the moderators to have responsibilities as well.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:01 AM   #6
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So, lets say I (as cis man) post an ad saying I am a female looking for a man. I refuse to verify but demand pics from the men responding to my ad. One way or another I get outed by someone (perhaps because they read this post where I say I'm a cis man) and this person tells everyone else here. Are my actions perfectly fine with you and can I keep on posting here? Keep in mind I lied about who I am and made people feel very unsafe in the end.

Sure, people have their own responsibility and that should not be forgotten. But I feel once a person has been proven to be fake (or is obviously fake) this site and the moderators to have responsibilities as well.
Yes. I would allow you to continue posting here.

As a person, and a user your actions would bother me. However, as a mod, I would not remove your post or prevent you from posting. Pretending to be something you are not is not against the rules. I would allow comments to stay on the ad that were (respectfully) outting the person as a fake as a warning to others.

I would guess that at a least a quarter to half of the people on this site are only here to live in a fantasyland. They have no intention of actually following through with dares or instructions. That isnt my intent on this site, but it is not responsibility to take that away from somebody else.

Its the internet. You can be anybody you want to be.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
I would guess that at a least a quarter to half of the people on this site are only here to live in a fantasyland. They have no intention of actually following through with dares or instructions. That isnt my intent on this site, but it is not responsibility to take that away from somebody else.

Its the internet. You can be anybody you want to be.
I agree with this part of your post. However I don't agree on the first part.

The men replying to my hypothetical add where I'm posing as a female did not give consent to engage in sexual acts with someone who is actually male. Just as consent is needed in real life, it is needed on the internet as well. And why would I lie about my gender? Very likely because that way I can get something I would have otherwise not get (as you probably know, just the fact that you are female gathers way more interest regarding anything sexual on the internet) and I could potentially blackmail people. Of course, that chance is always there, but quit a lot bigger when I already lie about my gender. Those men did certainly not consent to that.

You can't verify me and users have their own responsibilities for their online safety as well. But once I'm outed as a faker, you should get rid of me. I potentially endanger every one on this site. In my (west European) country I've read more than once in the news about men being blackmailed after sending pics to other men posing as women. They often just pay up (of course that's often what the blackmail is about), because they are ashamed. But once you pay the first time, they just try a second time. You're telling me getdare is actually facilitating in these practices by not banning known/outed fakers.

On the internet you can be everyone you want to be, so you're saying. But you are actually banning underage users. This is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how your other statements are in line with this. Those underage users are banned because, according to the law, they cannot consent. The men responding to my hypothetical ad could not give consent to engage in sexual acts with a man because they were lied to.
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Old 01-24-2020, 09:39 AM   #8
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I agree with this part of your post. However I don't agree on the first part.

The men replying to my hypothetical add where I'm posing as a female did not give consent to engage in sexual acts with someone who is actually male. Just as consent is needed in real life, it is needed on the internet as well. And why would I lie about my gender? Very likely because that way I can get something I would have otherwise not get (as you probably know, just the fact that you are female gathers way more interest regarding anything sexual on the internet) and I could potentially blackmail people. Of course, that chance is always there, but quit a lot bigger when I already lie about my gender. Those men did certainly not consent to that.

You can't verify me and users have their own responsibilities for their online safety as well. But once I'm outed as a faker, you should get rid of me. I potentially endanger every one on this site. In my (west European) country I've read more than once in the news about men being blackmailed after sending pics to other men posing as women. They often just pay up (of course that's often what the blackmail is about), because they are ashamed. But once you pay the first time, they just try a second time. You're telling me getdare is actually facilitating in these practices by not banning known/outed fakers.

On the internet you can be everyone you want to be, so you're saying. But you are actually banning underage users. This is a good thing, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how your other statements are in line with this. Those underage users are banned because, according to the law, they cannot consent. The men responding to my hypothetical ad could not give consent to engage in sexual acts with a man because they were lied to.
Hi carelessprogram,

I think you raise several important points and I am not going to disagree with you on any of it... I have been there.

However what I will say is; getDare is a free to use platform for us to enjoy. Unfortunately, it does not have the resources to vet anyone let alone everyone. I believe as an adult you should take the responsibility upon your own shoulders to ensure the person you are sending sensitive material to is the person they say they are. This can be done in various ways.

Knowing that you are on a platform which does not vet it's members and complaining that they do not vet it's members seems kinda silly.

Yes it would be great if getDare got rid of the 50%+ of sad men who think it's okay to do this... by the way for equality purposes the U.K news recently covered a story where a girl pretended to be a man for similar gratification, but getDare do not do this. You know they do not do this. You have been told it is not against their rules to do this.

So from my view you have a few options my friend... either take responsibility and only send your dick pics to people you have verified yourself, stop sending dick pics or... stop using getDare altogether.

Look, I get that it is frustrating... I have been there myself a few times AND luckily nothing too bad happened. It's humiliating and can lead to the serious consequences you raise. So for god sake guys, if you are going to build up relationships on here in the knowledge that the girl may be potentially packing more than you... either continue the relationship blindly, verify the person, decide not to send anything or don't use getDare.

Rant over!

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Old 01-24-2020, 11:35 AM   #9
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@Champion4Ever: I already acknowledged getdare can't verify their members and I agree that's undoable. However, I made up a hypothetical situation (hypothetical for me, as you will agree it happens enough for real) where I (a cis male) would pose as a female and delude other males. If I got outed by someone, Butterfly would allow me to keep on posting on this site. And that is what's wrong in my opinion.

From your post I understand you've been in that situation yourself a few times, would you like to see that person to keep on posting here (don't know if it happened on getdare, but you get my point) and make more victims?

I agree we all have our own responsibilities and we can only blame ourselves in case we get burned, but getdare can (and should) take their own responsibility (in this case, just simply banning that person and deleting posts) as well. When the admins tell us they would let me keep on posting in my hypothetical situation, they don't take any responsibility and this site does not feel very safe.

Edit: there are others ways getdare can take responsibility. For example, set rules that forbid users from demanding pictures (and other rules) and enforce them. You can't control what happens on Kik or whatever, but at least you make everyone more aware that pictures should go both ways and can't be demanded from one side.

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Old 01-24-2020, 12:56 PM   #10
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From your post I understand you've been in that situation yourself a few times, would you like to see that person to keep on posting here (don't know if it happened on getdare, but you get my point) and make more victims?
No, I did not enjoy seeing that person still posting on getDare... but as an adult I have to look at myself, my actions and what I did to get myself into the position I did.

I understand where you are coming from and your hypothetical situation is one people live. Is it fair? No. I don't think anyone is suggesting it is and a mod has said they would not delete any post "outing" the person in question.

I just refuse to allow myself to be a "helpless" victim and that it's someone else's fault. I'm a grown ass man and if I fucked up then that's on me. If I felt so strongly about gD's rules I have the right to leave in protest.

Like I said before, you make a fair argument, but you can only work with what you have and currently gD's rules clearly lay responsibility at your door not theirs... which I think is fair.
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Old 01-24-2020, 03:24 PM   #11
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My responses would be very similar to what Champion said s I will not restate the same things.

However, I will say that we have certain rules in place like not allowing people to demand photos which we hope helps people feel safe.

There are very few active mods on getdare at this time and we are not paid. We volunteer in our spare time to help facilitate a fun place for adults.

As adults, you have to take responsibility for your own play. If you have found somebody who is not being truthful, then post for other members to be warned. They can then make their own decisions. Lying is not a crime and unfortunately, around here, if it was against the rules, there would be tireless amounts of work and very few members left.

This will be my final thoughts on this discussion as I have stated both my personal opinion and what getdare rules allow me to do.
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Old 01-24-2020, 07:04 PM   #12
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Hypothetical
How are you so sure that someone is pretending to be a girl? You can catch them when the user makes a mistake but how often does that happen? The answer is almost never. You can use your hypothetical to argue that getDare might be unsafe due to lack of moderator's actions but if the hypothetical isn't realistic, it has no value.

Effort v. results
If moderators choose to ban people who pretend to be a girl with malicious intent, how does the moderator proof that the user is of that sort? There is only a limited set of tools to find out if the user is pretending to be the other sex but to be pretty sure of this, the moderator might be spending 20 á 30 minutes checking data. Hurray, getDare is protected! And then the banned user creates a new account in a couple of minutes and are anonymous again (if they know how).

If you believe someone has malicious intents, report the person with proof! Arguing that pretend girls might blackmail other people into paying them just because you saw it happen once on the news is a bit far fetched. This is the same as saying that there are hackers on the internet putting ransomware on people's computers so we must delete all TeamViewer and device control threads on getDare because it can be dangerous. Besides, I don't think that pretend girls blackmailing a man ever happened on getDare and if it did happen, not more than a couple of times. And weeding out thousands of pretend girls just to prevent such people from harming other users goes a bit too far and is a waste of time.

Keep in mind that the time/ effort you put into something is the same time/ effort you will get back from someone. So do your research on someone and don't just follow your dick because no research means taking a higher risk.

Pro banning
That said, I would ban pretend girls. If you know what to look for combined with a gut feeling, they are pretty easy to spot. The only problem is that you will never know for sure. In about 40% of the cases (from experience), it really was a pretend girl. I actually wrote a thread on it about two years ago but there were quite a few people who disagreed with me. At the very least, I can say it worked for me.

To end my post, I'd like to say that most men who use a female account originally registered themselves on getDare as with a male account. This means that they have multiple accounts which is (apparently) against the rules. So I do find it peculiar that the moderators don't bother to at least take a closer a look at accounts that are suspicious to pretending to be a different sex or are reported for a similar reason.
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:15 AM   #13
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@RiskyFlame. It's funny that you come around in the last part of your post. Saying that it's pretty easy to spot fakers and that it's strange that moderators don't bother to do just a little bit more. And how often it happens? You should ask Champion4Ever, he says he had it happen a few times.

All I'm saying is that yes, we all have our own responsibilities and should not walk away from that, but getdare can and should do a little bit more to make this place more safe. Some very simple rules that would make handling ads a bit more easy:

1: forbid one sided demands of pics. You can't control what happens on Kik, but at least you make people aware.
2: forbid extremely shallow ads. Ads where the poster only lists his/her demands or only writes up 1 or 2 sentences are worthless. Posters should put work into their ads, this also prevents fakers.
3: forbid excessive demands. I remember a few ads a while ago where the poster wanted the (male) sub to be naked and blindfolded/tied up in a hotel room and the master would send a random man to use him. This should have no place here, this so unsafe.

And I'm sure more people could come up with some more simple rules. Does an ad not follow the rules, to the trash can with it. Shouldn't take up a lot of time and makes it very simple for everyone involved.

If getdare does not have enough moderators to keep certain parts of this site safe, maybe those parts should be closed. I respect the insane amount of work Butterfly and others put into this (I've been an admin on other (non sexual) sites before, I know how it is), but you can't hide behind being understaffed. Not in the case where people might get in danger because of it.

And RiskyFlame, maybe teamviewer and the likes should be forbidden indeed. It's so extremely dangerous, not only because of ransomware but mostly because of privacy. Not everyone can judge the dangers as well as they should. If I wanted to get some people in trouble, I would go to getdare.
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Old 01-25-2020, 05:48 AM   #14
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@carelessprogram There are parts with which I agree and parts with which I disagree.

Gutters
getDare used to have gutter forums for as long as I've been around on here but the number of these barely moderated sections seem to be growing. It used to be just the person above truth or dare and the messengers section (aside from the cam slave marketplace). Now, I feel like the dares section is added which is a pretty big part of getDare considering that getDare is created for Truth or Dare.

It's easy to tell the community to report posts if they break the rules but this is just an excuse to not bother spending time yourself to clean some forum sections a little bit. And arguing that we mustn't complain because the staff moderates getDare without compensation (thus unpaid) is also an excuse. If you don't want to spend time moderating without compensation then why are you part of the staff? Whatever the reason, if the staff is understaffed then recruit new staff members to help out with moderating getDare. So I agree with you on that.

Rant over, now back to the discussion.

Posting rules
Extra posting rules is not the best course of action. The more rules you have to follow, the complexer/ harder it is to follow them all. Some won't bother to follow them and the staff might not bother to address these users. Even legitimate threads/ ads might break one of the many rules.

I don't think it's the staff's job to moderate the content of a post more than they should. I feel like the current posting rules of getDare guidelines are perfect for both the users and the staff to follow and moderate. If course, everyone has its opinion on this matter. When you add rules like the examples you gave, it will be too much of a hassle to properly moderate getDare and users might not remember them all because of the quantity.

Responsibility
Instead of restricting everyone's content with more rules, I believe that people should judge the risk of danger of a post themselves. Just look at all the blackmail threads floating around on getDare, which you can argue are extremely unsafe. Yet people are attracted to those threads and keep posting on them. Banning those along with other possibly dangerous threads will leave us with several forum sections that are almost empty, and users leaving getDare. It's hard to find a balance between facilitating a platform for the user's needs (incl. risky threads) while also keeping everything safe. The silver lining between them has to be approached and I do think this is done well enough. The staff made a decision which they think is the best and I'd assume it's always up for discussion if the community (or specific users) disagree with the decision. But in the end, the staff has the final choice.

Horny minds
Users who jump on the danger wagon without thinking twice (blackmail, TeamViewer, sending pictures, etc.) are to blame themselves if anything bad happens. This doesn't mean that one shouldn't help them out but to protect someone tumbling around blindfolded (figure of speech: horniness can be blinding) will be at the cost of the freedom of others. Besides, I wouldn't help those who can't even think for themselves.

Sorry if I shifted the topic towards the dangers of getDare and how to deal with them. If you want, we can go back to the original topic: how to deal with pretend girls. And next time (if there will be one), I'll keep my posts a lot shorter.
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Old 01-25-2020, 08:59 AM   #15
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@RiskyFlame, please don't move away from the dangers of getdare. That's exactly what my point was, guys pretending to be girls was just one of the examples and the most easy to get a response for from an admin.

There's not much more to say. I think getdare is lacking in taking the responsibility they have. Getdare is an online platform to meet people for non mainstream sexual acts (sure that's maybe not what truth or dares real meaning is, but it's a very big part of the site) and that in itself brings responsibilities. If the admin team is understaffed, you need to expand it or shut down certain parts of the site. But you agree on that part .

But there are other problems. By coincidence I noticed two topics yesterday about a person wanting to be anonymized because he was getting stalked. It seems there is no procedure for this. Since getdare operates in Europe it has to comply to the GDPR, although I'm not exactly sure it applies to this site (although I know other forums do comply). Anyhow, I think it would be a good thing that breathes security if this is something that's possible by default. Another problem with GDPR is that getdare uses google tag manager and is not configured to anonymize ip addresses, yet there is no cookie consent. I'm far from an expert on GDPR, but as far as I know this breaks the law.

All in all, this site does not breath the security it should. I hope something gets done with this feedback. If not, perfectly fine, but I will never ever trust this site anymore and hopefully others don't as well.
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