Another off topic rant about how getDare is unsafe

[carelessprogram]

Originally Posted by Butterfly

As long as he isn't asking for money on our site, we won't do anything about it.

If you have an issue with our rules and how "unsafe" getDare is, you may leave. I am not having this discussion again.

Again? We never had a discussion in the first place. All you said is that you don't care about it and won't change things. And when I mentioned getdare is breaking European laws you closed the topic and never responded to my pm.

He might not be asking for money on getdare, but you sure as hell know what happens when the conversation gets moved away from this site. He's a guy posing as a woman and asking money, and you are allowing him to continue these practices. How exactly is that in the best interest of the users on this site? Please answer that question directly.

[SpiderSophie]

Originally Posted by carelessprogram

Again? We never had a discussion in the first place. All you said is that you don't care about it and won't change things. And when I mentioned getdare is breaking European laws you closed the topic and never responded to my pm.

He might not be asking for money on getdare, but you sure as hell know what happens when the conversation gets moved away from this site. He's a guy posing as a woman and asking money, and you are allowing him to continue these practices. How exactly is that in the best interest of the users on this site? Please answer that question directly.

Poor Butterfly. She is a volunteer, after all.

I had a feeling that the site was US based (at least it used to be), so EU law is not relevant.

The getDare rules do have to have some limits. How far should any site have to pursue investigations into its user's activities?

If this person is doing these things on another site, just how is it that getdare is "allowing him to continue these practices"? Why not contact the site where he is doing it, not vilify Butterfly.

[carelessprogram]

I don't know where Getdare is based, it does not matter.

Does the GDPR affect the US?

Yes!

The GDPR has extra-territorial scope, which means that websites outside of the EU that process data of people inside the EU are obligated to comply with the GDPR.

So, if you have a website in the US and you have visitors from the EU, the GDPR applies to your domain. Therefore, if that is the case, you need to meet the GDPR requirements and conditions for processing data.

Source: https://www.cookiebot.com/en/gdpr-usa/

Getdare uses google tag manager and it's configuration (easily visible in the source of this page) does not anonymize ip addresses and there is no cookie consent form. So getdare does not comply with gdpr at that point at least. Futher more account deletion/anonymization is sketchy at least here.

So, that point is taken care off. Now the next, she's a volunteer you say? That is very likely indeed, but that does not matter. She still has responsibilities. I think we all want this site to be a place where we feel as safe as possible right? The ban list is (rightfully) full with underage users, so why not ban people who are obviously up to no good?

The admins here should not have to go through a one hour investigation, and most of the time it's pretty easy to discover these things. I've pointed out enough fakers (here and on reddit) and it doesn't take up much time at all. Besides, in this case she has her work cut out for her by other users. If Butterfly does not have enough time, other admins should be found. If they can't be found, maybe this ad section should be closed.

This site does not want to enable underage users and/or child molesters (and I guess none of us want's that), so with that in mind I ask you: why enable people who lie about their gender and are gonna ask people for money (something that is not allowed on getdare) once conversation moves off site? This site provides a platform for these people to find victims.

Another ad here recently asked people to commit incest. Do we really want that here? Do we really want someones innocent sister or brother be the victim?

[SpiderSophie]

"The GDPR has extra-territorial scope"
I represent the nation state of Bongovia. Under our extra-territorial law all users of the internet, regardless of their physical domain, must pay us a usage fee of 1000 USD per day. You have been assessed as being a net user for 10 years. You owe us 3,650,000 USD. Please remit the money to the Bongovian tax office within 7 days, or face persuit in the US courts under out Bongovian law.

"I think we all want this site to be a place where we feel as safe as possible right?"
I can't imagine where you got the laughable notion that all users of getDare want the site to be as safe as possible. There is an element of danger in all aspects of life - I personally am not here for safety.

"The admins here should not have to go through a one hour investigation"
Then how many hours should it be? In what ways is some arbitrary amount of time relevant here? Your previous arguments imply that investigations could take an unlimited amount of time.

" why enable people who lie about their gender and are gonna ask people for money (something that is not allowed on getdare) once conversation moves off site? This site provides a platform for these people to find victims. "
If they ask for money and you pay it, in what way are you a victim?

[carelessprogram]

Originally Posted by SpiderSophie

"The GDPR has extra-territorial scope"
I represent the nation state of Bongovia. Under our extra-territorial law all users of the internet, regardless of their physical domain, must pay us a usage fee of 1000 USD per day. You have been assessed as being a net user for 10 years. You owe us 3,650,000 USD. Please remit the money to the Bongovian tax office within 7 days, or face persuit in the US courts under out Bongovian law.

I thought we were having a mature discussion, it seems I was wrong. I provided a source stating that the GDPR does apply for getdare and you respond in a very childish way. Because of this I can't be bothered to reply to the rest of your post. You're 28 years old, give or take, please act like an adult.

[SpiderSophie]

Originally Posted by carelessprogram

I thought we were having a mature discussion, it seems I was wrong. I provided a source stating that the GDPR does apply for getdare and you respond in a very childish way. Because of this I can't be bothered to reply to the rest of your post. You're 28 years old, give or take, please act like an adult.

If the GDPR is being satirized it is because it is fraught with enforcement problems. getDare has little to worry about. If you don't understand satire then you are the childish one.

However, I can understand you taking this as an this excuse to escape an argument that you are clearly losing.

[amethyst353]

If a site has no physical presence in the EU or there is no flow of cash out of the EU to the site, there is simply no way to enforce GDPR outside of the EU.

Should sites like getDare meet the standards of it anyway? I certainly think so, especially with how sensitive the data on here can be. However, I do know that this site runs on vBulletin, which at this point is an ancient platform so I am not sure if it is possible to wipe someone's history here easily.

I also know that it is clear getDare will never conform to those standards no matter what I think they should do. It is my choice whether I continue to use it knowing the risks.

And of course getDare isn't safe. No kink space is. Other than the ableism in the original acronym, that is one of the reasons that RACK (risk-aware, consensual kink) has been replacing SSC (safe, sane, and consensual) as the guiding mantra. The idea that any kinky act is "safe" is really stretching the meaning of that term. Being aware of the risks and doing what you can to reasonably manage them is a lot more realistic way of approaching it.

So getDare is what it is and from my experience, doesn't try to hide it. It is a kinky community on an outdated platform, which is lightly moderated and has a high level of anonymity. You can either recognize that and do what you can to vet and take other steps to protect yourself, or you can decide that the risks are too high and find a better environment for you. And it's not like there is any shortage of bdsm communities online (and many of them on modern platforms where there is a reasonable right/ability to be forgotten).

You clearly believe the amount of risk here is too high and are not okay with how it is run. And that is absolutely a valid opinion to have, but continuing to try to force it to become something else and not taking no for an answer is becoming tiring. Just move on.

[Tease]

Originally Posted by carelessprogram

I don't know where Getdare is based, it does not matter.

It kinda does matter though, whilst you are right that the GDPR applies everywhere it is not easily enforceable everywhere and the chances of it being enforced on a small site like getDare are very very slim and so the best you can really do if you don't like it is not to sign up in the first place.

Originally Posted by carelessprogram

The ban list is (rightfully) full with underage users, so why not ban people who are obviously up to no good?

Because they haven't broken the site rules and just because you don't like or agree with what they do that doesn't give you the right to police them. If you want to make the rules then create your own site.

Originally Posted by carelessprogram

If Butterfly does not have enough time, other admins should be found. If they can't be found, maybe this ad section should be closed.

Butterfly is a dear friend of mine, and someone who constantly goes out of her way to enrich the lives of people around her. She runs events, she tries to include people, she's run match-making services, she reaches out and looks out for lots of people, she supports charities in her person life that she would never shout about because she asks for no recognition in return! She helps to organise and run this site in her own free time for the good of its members.

She is a very selfless person and someone who inspires me to try and be a little bit better to others (and the therefore the reason I'm not being more aggressive here). So please before you start antagonising the staff just pause for a moment and think about what have you given back recently. A quiet and friendly word will get you much further in life than trying to force your points across in a public forum.

[MasterMichaelNY]

First of all, leave the mods out of this, they are doing there best and they are way underman. When I first joined there where 6 mods, now there are 2 active, what happened to the rest, I have no clue.

Now, it is not somebody else's respondable to protect you. If your not willing to protect yourself, enjoy being the victim. It just like real life, if there is a alleyway and a bunch of thugs are hanging out, and you decide to walk down it. You get what you deserve. Don't point your finger at other people and said, you should of protected me. In real life, people don't respect the victim hood card.

So you think this site is bad, that's a joke. Then go to ALT.com buy there gold membership, and enjoy the worst of the worst, but the best part is, your paying for it.

So it's time to grow up and take responsibility. Never play the victim, nobody respects that, except people who are willing to take power away from you and control your life, so you can feel a Faust sense of protection.

[Masterwants]

If people choose to take things further off site then they have to take responsibility for themselves. It’s not kindergarten. I’m not sure how off site activity becomes a mods problem, that’s a crazy concept. Please don’t start with the GDPR bullshit, if you don’t like what’s going on please leave, nobody is forcing you to be here. It’s a kinky site, we’re here to hopefully have fun and get away from real life or incorporate this into our real lives, accept it for what it is.

[SilvertongueLyra]

If we are going for unsafe - the entire internet is a minefield. You just gotta know what to say and what not to; where to tread and where staying away is better for you. GetDare has the benefit of being open to only adults, and adults are considered to be sensible enough to know what to do on the net and what not. Not everything we read here is true, not everything that many post is true. The mods understand that, and try their best to keep things as safe as they can - but with so many members and so many posts per day, that's a VERY difficult task to do.

Think of GetDare as a neighbourhood with few police officers, you know there is some fishy stuff going on, but you gotta try being a good citizen and upholding the law as best you can, and helping the police when they do come around instead of yelling at them and making their jobs that much more difficult.

[Masterwants]

I’ve spoken to a few people here about the fake and untruth side of things. One of them told me they didn’t care if a person was fake or lied about tasks etc. to them, as they got off on the thought that it could all be true and that was good enough for them.

Personally I choose very carefully and I want things based around the truth. But it seems we’re all different.

If I think or find out someone’s fake I just avoid it, not going to blame the mods for it that’s for sure. Self responsibility and choices. I don’t need to be nannied here.

[ewitch]

I don't normally post in threads like these but given the number of times I have been through GDPR at work thought it was important to share my understanding.


It applies to all those who do business or court business in the EU (plus a few other smaller countries). For most websites court it is one of 4 things that make them fall into scope:-
* Sending products to the EU
* Selling digital products to EU IPs and EU cards
* Advertising clearly target at the EU (either basing it on IP or just EU centric adverts).
* Activly courting EU persons (e.g. advertising the site in the EU)



However just having EU persons visit the sight does not make it fall in scope. In the case of getdare unlike google and youtube etc. - the lack of adverts or taking any money makes it hard to argue that there is a business going on and even if there was that it is targeting the EU.

[Hammarling]

Originally Posted by carelessprogram

Again? We never had a discussion in the first place. All you said is that you don't care about it and won't change things. And when I mentioned getdare is breaking European laws you closed the topic and never responded to my pm.

GetDare is not covered by GDPR.
So as part of my job i deal with, litteraly, hundreds of pieces peoples sensitive details, and i have sat through multiple GDPR training sessions. Personal data collection is not a central part of GetDares business operation. GetDare has far less than 250 employees (i don't know exactly, but i imagine GetDare actually has zero paid employees, and it that's correct then it is entirely spared from GDPR regardless of what it does). I'm not keyed in on what ad software GetDare uses, but if they are using a thrid party system to run ads, GetDare has a resonsibility to make sure it's ad's are moderated and suitable for the site (eg. age appropriate if a site has no age gating, GetDare does so is pretty free to do as it wants) but the data collection responsibility falls to the third party ad company.

He might not be asking for money on getdare, but you sure as hell know what happens when the conversation gets moved away from this site. He's a guy posing as a woman and asking money, and you are allowing him to continue these practices. How exactly is that in the best interest of the users on this site? Please answer that question directly.

Pretty clearly laid out on the site many many times. As long as they are not asking for money on the site, it's not against the rules. Once the mods are made away of someone asking for money that person gets banned. They do this all the time!
If you don't like it, don't engage with the person who is obviously just fishing for money! Take some respnsibility for your own actions.
If i talk to someone on kik, the very moment they mention money i report and block that account and move on. Situation dealt with and i've moved on in 30seconds.

Equally there is nothing wrong with someone role-playing on this site. Maybe that's their kink! Maybe they actually identify as female or transgender or whatever.
You spend a few weeks here you learn to see the signs of a faker, and then you just avoid them. Just engage your brain for 30seconds and you will have zero problems. Or use the block function on GetDare or kik and remove them completely from the equation.

[carelessprogram]

First of all, I couldn't respond earlier since Butterfly thought it was necessary to ban me.

Second of all, I want to address Depp (the site owner) with this post. If I don't, Butterfly will remove me since she is tired of this conversation. Depp hasn't been online in two months, so we'll see how this goes.

I don't understand why many of you think getdare does not have to comply with the GDPR. The source I posted earlier is pretty clear on that. Also, getdare does certainly process personal data. As soon as you want to register you have to enter your birthdate, your emailadress is required and more information is potentionally gathered (IP addresses for sure). All of these are personal data. And it certainly uses Google services for analytics that are not configured to anonimize your data.

Someone mentioned getdare does not use ads, it certainly does (juicyads). Those set (tracking) cookies. Furthermore, getdare accepts payments from EU citizens. See https://www.getdare.com/bbs/payments.php, so it certainly does do bussiness in the EU.

Getdare should comply with GDPR and not like it happened in this thread: https://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=378454. At the very least there should be a cookiewall (https://www.cookiebot.com/en/cookie-...SAAEgLRA_D_BwE), but it obviously goes a bit further than that.

Getdare has about 300.000 registered members (easily visible if you increase the parameter when visiting a random profile, see user no 300.000 https://www.getdare.com/bbs/member.php?u=300000). That's quite a lot and the database would be quite a goldmine for every hacker, especially because of the sensitive nature of the site. Remember the hacks of Adult Friend Finder and the likes in the past?

Our online privacy is a great thing and even with a little bit of data you can find a lot. That's exactly why the GDPR came around, to give us some control back. If anything, getdare should out of goodwill implement policies that comply with the GDPR. And if you ask why or if you tell me getdare is too small to be enforced, I ask you why not and to philosophize with me why the law (any law) should not apply to the little ones (sites, persons etc).

On another note, getdare is running on deprecated software. It is running on vBulletin 3.8.11, according to https://forum.vbulletin.com/forum/vb...ulletin-3-8-11 it is end of life:

vBulletin 3 is end of life and will not be receiving future development. Warning: vBulletin 3.8.11 is not compatible with PHP 7.2.0 or higher.

This also means getdare uses PHP (the programming language vbulletin is written in) lower than 7.2. All PHP versions lower than 7.2 are end of life (https://www.php.net/supported-versions.php). Even 7.2 will be end of life before the end of this year. This means neither used vBulletin nor PHP receive security updates anymore, this is very dangerous (every serious programmer will tell you so).

Enough about the GDPR, about lying in ads.

In https://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=362478 it is stated that honesty is encouraged, but you may lie. What kind of rule is that? Change it to either "do not lie" or "lie all you want".

Why does getdare ban underage users, but does nothing to liars? I suppose they don't want underage users here because it's against the law and because they can't give consent (and I'm fully behind banning underage users, don't get me wrong). As the rules in the link mentioned state, consent is important. I did not give consent to someone to lie about their gender, age or intentions. This is tricking someone into doing things they would not have done if they had the right information. I'm sure lots of you don't mind and might even get off on it, but not everyone does. Yes, I agree everyone has their own responsibilities and should decide for themselves if they deem someone thrustworthy or not and getdare does not have to go into full detective mode for every ad. But if users post warnings and if it's so clear a user lies, it would take little effort to do something about it.

Also stated in the link above, posts promoting illegal activities will be removed. Really? See https://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=380251, this person promotes incest. Why is this post still there? Don't get fancy and tell me this user does not tell you to engage into incest... She does, or why else does she want you to live with your parents or sister. In her other ads, users have warned about her being a scammer. Do we really want people like her on getdare?