He was great Christian...

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1. I like death. I'm sorry about anyone's passing, but death is fair - possibly the only fair thing in this world. Everyone dies. It's just a matter of time. What remains is the impact you have had on people. Oral Roberts, who helped pioneer TV evangelism in the 1950s and used the power of the new medium — and his message of God's healing power — to build a multimillion-dollar ministry and a university that bears his name, died Tuesday. His word made money. His word became influence. By the way, he created his own university, he didn't have one named after him for recognition of his actions. He also laid the foundation for the "prosperity gospel," the doctrine that has come to dominate televangelism. It holds that God rewards the faithful with material success. Its critics say it is used by preachers to enrich themselves at the expense of their followers. He may have just emulated the concept of the Church(es) in general in that fashion. Almost every major religion and belief system has been accused of such a crime in recent years, with the downfall of religiosity and the rise of atheism. The institution used to protect the religious establishments, but that has considerably subsided. The generation of "prosperity preachers" who followed Roberts point to their own luxury homes and private jets as evidence of God's favor. I suppose there could be some truth to the allegations for several individuals. Knowing none of them personnally nor thru their gospel and preaching, I prefer to reserve judgement and let God sort it out. Only He, after all, knows what is inside a man's heart. Loke, I'll tell you this: as long as you don't tell us to start sending you money, you'll do fine. Charity, prayer and salvation should be their own reward; I respect your faith but I will never provide you with money to sustain it. Your faith should sustain itself on its own, and have no need of financial or material sustenance, as Jesus said in the Bible (paraphrasing here, of course). As for Mr. Roberts, may he rest in peace.

   Posted 12-15-2009 at 05:58 PM by interesting

2. But, it also never hurts to make money off a thing you enjoy to do. Jesus also said, "Do not store up treasures for yourself on earth." He may be guilty of that, but not fully guilty. As he needs money to live and to eat. However, I do believe he did used at least some of his moeny for good purposes. I do hope that he sent large sums of his money to the poor and needy. I would not ask for any of you for money here. Besides if I do, I am asking for money, and I think it is against the gd rules, to ask for money. Christians lost faith to solely survive on. So, they need jobs to make money, to help them to survive. I did preach and make references to God and Jesus on here and will contune to do so. I want to see the lost get saved. But so far, I don't think I got anyone yet to see the turth.

   Posted 12-15-2009 at 06:08 PM by lokelake Updated 12-15-2009 at 06:18 PM by lokelake

3. Jesus commands, "Preach to every living thing." If you wanna do this please keep in mind that people do have other religions too. I was in a christian fellowship back in high school, and I know some of the more devoted of us tried preaching to the muslims in the school. Which consists to about 70% of our student count. The effort was not only futile, but people started hating them. Firstly, it's illegal for muslims in our country to convert their religion. But then again, if you want to preach but keep making enemies, you're not really putting God in a very good light aren't you. Best way to spread God's word is subtly and smartly. I like death. I like the way you think xP I don't believe in heaven or hell P: but instead, I believe after death you'll just be sleeping eternally xP Sounds like a better option for me than going up to heaven or something, hard work you know xP

   Posted 12-15-2009 at 07:52 PM by 444

4. 	Jesus made a lot of enemies. Jesus even said, "If the world hates you, remember, that they hated me first." To me, Heaven, is a much better option than sleeping eternally. Even Hell is a better option than sleeping eternally. Both places, you are at least alive. Heaven though, is a much better option than Hell. Everyone underestimates Hell.
   	Posted 12-15-2009 at 07:57 PM by lokelake Updated 12-15-2009 at 07:59 PM by lokelake

5. 	I'm just saying, it's better to get people motivated and interested in Christianity than to go on a pedestal and shout jesus is god and make everyone think you're stupid P: I'm sure even God likes good marketing staff
   	Posted 12-15-2009 at 08:56 PM by 444

6. It was St-Paul or St-Luke who is quoted, either in the Acts or in the letters, as saying something in the manner of: "Show me your faith without action, I will show you mine through action." One of the most important lessons in literature and writing fiction also shares that belief: Show don't tell. Preaching is telling; it is faith without concrete action. Charity work is showing; it is faith as perceived as faith through action. That, personnally, is why I don't think preaching is the best way to go. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I think it should fall second to being kind and charitable. Gandhi did not preach. He helped. Mother Teresa did not preach. She helped. I believe those two individuals were on a much greater path than Mr. Roberts. But that is a personal opinion. All great charity work is best done in silence and anonymity; and no one name stands out, as the charity takes precedence over the people involved. We don't help others to have our name in lights: we help others because it's the right thing to do. Jesus never wanted the spotlight, but his image became greater than his message, because the name became more important than the actions. Remember him not because he was the son of God, remember him because he was a good man who gave everything for others, and who showed us through example that good deeds and charitable work are their own reward.

   Posted 12-15-2009 at 10:06 PM by interesting

7. Quote: Originally Posted by interesting Gandhi did not preach. He helped. Mother Teresa did not preach. She helped. Gosh, you pretty much stole what I wanted to say right here. A person can claim they spread the word of God. However, if they do not follow it, then they are hypocrites. I am not saying Mr. Roberts is a hypocrite, but many TV Evangelists are. Going out and doing the simplest of deeds for free, not signing huge TV contracts to talk about the Lord, is a far greater deed. You can read the entire bible and believe everything in there. But if you don't follow, what good was it then for reading it?

   Posted 12-15-2009 at 10:37 PM by Manbearpig

8. 	Jesus also showed us how to get into Heaven ad how we should live. Jesus should be remembered as our Savior who died for us. I am not afraid to say this: I don't believe Gandhi is in Heaven. He didn't believe Jesus is the Son of God. So, since he is a non-believer, he does not see life. Also, I read that he didn't want repentance for his sins. So, all sinners does not see life as well.
   	Posted 12-16-2009 at 05:54 AM by lokelake

9. This is a pure paraphrase, Loke, but you are basically saying, given all that you have previously stated, that Gandhi...upon his death... went to hell. This is not going to make you popular here (or almost anywhere for that matter). Not that popularity is important. Jesus did not seek fame, after all. But he did seek peace and charity, and love of the other, above all things. The man who, in our time, is the most renowned for being the prophet of non-violence, forgiveness and tolerance, the one whom, shall we say, emulated the most the journey of the Christian savior on this earth, is a sinner and therefore is burning in hell? And yet, Mr. Roberts, who indulged in preaching and proselytizing, accumulating wealth on this earth and creating a religious 'empire' of sorts, is there. I'm sorry, but if that's how you get to heaven, I'd rather be in hell with Gandhi.

   Posted 12-16-2009 at 11:45 AM by interesting

10. Yes, I know that won't make me popular here and it may get people to dislike me. But, just like what Jesus said, "Remember, that they hated me first." And if they do bad to me rather by word or action, Jesus said to that, "Rejoice, and leap for joy, for your reward is great in Heaven." Now how I understood, "Rejoice and leap for joy" that means that don't get sad and upset by those people. As for Mr. Roberts, I really don't know. God will decide if he should see life or not. Now, if Gandhi didn't know that Jesus was the only way to get into Heaven, then he may have gotten into Heaven. But the thing is, he was exposed to that Salvation, by other Christians and the bible. The Christians tried to explain to him that good works alone does not get you into Heaven and that he should seek repentance for his sins. Gandhi chose to not listen to them. Hell is far worse than Heaven. Hell is eternal torment. Getting into Heaven is so easy... Believe and forgive. Try not so sin, if you do sin, not to worry, just forgive yourself and you are all set.

    Posted 12-16-2009 at 11:58 AM by lokelake

11. Quote: Originally Posted by lokelake Yes, I know that won't make me popular here and it may get people to dislike me. But, just like what Jesus said, "Remember, that they hated me first." And if they do bad to me rather by word or action, Jesus said to that, "Rejoice, and leap for joy, for your reward is great in Heaven." Now how I understood, "Rejoice and leap for joy" that means that don't get sad and upset by those people. On that, I agree. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade, or something like that. It doesn't matter if people like you or not, in truth; the most important part is that you like yourself. Of course, it helps people to like you if you respect their ideas. Quote: Originally Posted by lokelake Now, if Gandhi didn't know that Jesus was the only way to get into Heaven, then he may have gotten into Heaven. But the thing is, he was exposed to that Salvation, by other Christians and the bible. The Christians tried to explain to him that good works alone does not get you into Heaven and that he should seek repentance for his sins. Gandhi chose to not listen to them. So the best way to get into heaven is to never become aware of the Christ's message? And becoming aware of the message is an automatic sentence to hell if you refuse to listen to it then and refuse conversion? Quote: Originally Posted by lokelake Getting into Heaven is so easy... Believe and forgive. Try not so sin, if you do sin, not to worry, just forgive yourself and you are all set. I don't see it. I don't feel it either. Here's why, and this is just one example. We have touched on this before. I am a mass murderer. I have killed/raped many men/women/children and have committed many sins in the face of God and humanity. I have worshipped the great Demon for whom my deeds were intended to please. I created an idol of that Demon. I have often cursed on the name of God and used it unduly. I have forgotten the Sabbath. I have disavowed my parents and failed to honor them. I have killed others for pleasure or for no reason at all. I have slept outside of wedlock. I have taken things without permission. I have made it so that my neighbour has been accused of the crimes I have committed, bearing false witness to him. In doing so, I coveted his wife and slept with her; I also coveted all his belongings and have partaken of their fruit. In other words, I HAVE BROKEN EVERY SINGLE COMMANDMENT GOD HAS EVER GIVEN. BUT: I have forgiven those who have wronged me, and I now repent for my sins, and have forgiven myself. THEREFORE: I will be going to heaven. Do I understand your logic?

    Posted 12-16-2009 at 03:05 PM by interesting

12. THEREFORE: I will be going to heaven. Well, you failed to mention that you now believe Jesus is the Son of God, so therefore, no, you will not get into Heaven. So the best way to get into heaven is to never become aware of the Christ's message? And becoming aware of the message is an automatic sentence to hell if you refuse to listen to it then and refuse conversion? Yes to the second question, and I suppose yes to the first question.

    Posted 12-16-2009 at 08:39 PM by lokelake

13. To add my two cents- I never got the appeal of heaven. I mean sure eternal paradise sounds great, but after a while it would get boring- part of being human is having good and bad experiences, so if you just had the good you wouldn't even realise they were good. I also find the idea of spending eternity with a group of people whose criteria for admission was to be devoutly religious and straight laced, unappealing to say the least... Unless now they're in heaven they decide 'to hell with it' and have an orgy now that God can't punish them as they're already in paradise. Hell sounds much more interesting, sure eternal pain yadda yadda- but after a while, as with any pain, it would become just a mild ache. But think of all the people you'd meet! Pirates, wild party animals, nymphomaniacs, fire-eaters, drug kingpins and mobsters to name a few! Just sounds a much more interesting way to spend eternity!

    Posted 12-17-2009 at 05:53 AM by Jacques

14. 	No, the pain will never get lessened. You will never get used to it. Hell is also extreme regret. You will be forever extremely regretting about not believing that Jesus is the Son of God.
    	Posted 12-17-2009 at 05:48 PM by lokelake

15. Even if the pain stayed at the same level- it would still gradually feel lessened as a person got used to it- in any case since the person is dead, there is no 'them' to feel pain anyway. The grammar would 'extremely regretful', but still no, have I not just explained how much fun hell would be? You can do anything without further consequences as you're, well... already in hell to begin with! Almost makes me wish the whole thing were real...

    Posted 12-17-2009 at 06:32 PM by Jacques

16. 	If I enjoy pain will I enjoy hell? Eternal pain might be fun for a lot of people. Also, will I go to hell if I only believe in the teaching of Madame Blavatsky? What about L Ron Hubbard? I'm confused about all this stuff.
    	Posted 12-17-2009 at 06:45 PM by depp

17. Quote: Originally Posted by lokelake THEREFORE: I will be going to heaven. Well, you failed to mention that you now believe Jesus is the Son of God, so therefore, no, you will not get into Heaven. So the best way to get into heaven is to never become aware of the Christ's message? And becoming aware of the message is an automatic sentence to hell if you refuse to listen to it then and refuse conversion? Yes to the second question, and I suppose yes to the first question. As will I.. But I must say why is it so easy to deny the truth? I mean some athirst out there tell me why are you one? The only ecxcuse would maybe e if your like the top scientist or something I mean help ne out here I'm just confused

    Posted 12-17-2009 at 08:27 PM by maxim

18. This discussion that life would be boring in heaven is unfounded, upon looking at other pieces of scriptures. We are told that, being free of our sinful flesh, we will have no desire to partake in the things that appeal to us now. And, at that time, as we are completely of the Spirit, we will find eternal happiness in praising the Lord. It is said in Revelations 5:13 "Then I heard every creature in heaven [...] singing [...]" The next verses detail the lavishing praise they bestow upon God (Revelations 5:13-14). They eternally give praise = They are eternally happy. On the other hand, it is said that "that of the flesh will follow the desires of the flesh." If one desires their sin, and cannot find repentence and salvation, then wouldn't it stand to reason that they would still desire the same temptation, if not the same then magnified due to the lack of God, in Hell? If this is true, then Hell would be the source of eternal happiness for people. Eternal damnation = Eternal happiness.

    Posted 12-17-2009 at 09:45 PM by Odiefrom

19. I suppose there's really no arguing theological matters. People have their own internal logic when dealing with these. Wait? Haven't I said that, like, a bazillion times? It seems to me that, as with all other arguments based on faith, interpretation of holy texts and belief systems, it's all a question of I'm right and You're wrong because My Book says so, if you read it The Right Way. It's becoming moot. This is my final comment on this thread: there is no clear-cut nor measurable or empirical evidence of the existence of a life after death, nor does this lack of evidence automatically deny said possibility of existence. I suppose I wanted you, Loke, to come to this conclusion by yourself, but you don't have to, if you don't want to. I will rest my case with the same argument which philsophers have pondered since the beginning of time.

    Posted 12-17-2009 at 11:35 PM by interesting

20. 	Quote: Originally Posted by maxim I mean some athirst out there tell me why are you one? The only ecxcuse would maybe e if your like the top scientist or something I mean help ne out here I'm just confused I'm an atheist. Why? I just am. I just can't believe there is a God and Heaven and Hell etc. My dad died a few years ago. I still don't believe in God and Heaven and Hell. It's just who I am.
    	Posted 12-18-2009 at 06:14 AM by Slenderman - Doctor

21. 	Quote: Originally Posted by Marvin I'm an atheist. Why? I just am. I just can't believe there is a God and Heaven and Hell etc. My dad died a few years ago. I still don't believe in God and Heaven and Hell. It's just who I am. With Marvin on that. You can't change what we are with a few 'threatening' words. I'm an Atheist and that's that.
    	Posted 12-18-2009 at 06:37 AM by Night-1991

22. Ooh, an Atheists Anonymous meeting! Great! I'm Jacques and I'm an atheist because not only do I think gods and godesses don't exist, but I think that any organised form of religion does more harm than good. If people want to believe in a higher power fine, but if they expect to have their right to believe respected, then they have to respect everyone else's right to believe something else or nothing at all. Any form of religious belief should be personal, and not something that you attempt to force on or preach to others.

    Posted 12-18-2009 at 07:04 AM by Jacques

23. 	I'm not reading these comments but please do not preach to people on getDare. It's people like you who are the reason why other people think Christians are OTT and crazy. If people want to be part of a religion then it's up to them to follow that path, all you are doing is probably pushing them in another direction.
    	Posted 12-18-2009 at 07:39 AM by BettyBoop Updated 12-18-2009 at 08:42 AM by BettyBoop

24. 	Jackques, re-read these two quotes, and you will know why I am preaching: "I solemnly charge you: proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke. correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching." Timothy, 4:2 I am doing what that quote says. Jesus commands, "Preach to every living thing."
    	Posted 12-18-2009 at 10:36 AM by lokelake

25. Quote: Originally Posted by lokelake Jackques, re-read these two quotes, and you will know why I am preaching: "I solemnly charge you: proclaim the message; persist in it whether convenient or not; rebuke. correct, and encourage with great patience and teaching." Timothy, 4:2 I am doing what that quote says. Jesus commands, "Preach to every living thing." So you think he'll be happy if you shout at someone "convert or you'll burn in hell!", "don't be gay!" -insert other babble here-

    Posted 12-18-2009 at 10:38 AM by Night-1991

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