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Fiendish
06-21-2008, 09:03 AM
I'm here to dispel what seems to be a common misconception among alot of people new in the M/s and D/s lifestyle.

Alot of people think that subs and slaves are weak, which is why they submit.

I'm here to tell you that they are NOT weak, are the farthest thing from weak. They are able to submit because they are strong, they're comfortable with what they are, and they know it won't be an easy road, but they do it anyway. Why? They need to, it's what they are.

All slaves and subs have my respect, I know you're very strong people.

Now, if anyone wants to disagree, state your case :p

Collared_Slave
06-21-2008, 09:11 AM
Im a weak slave.
Take that fiendish theory!

Fiendish
06-21-2008, 09:12 AM
You're arguing just to be argumentative, aren't you?

Collared_Slave
06-21-2008, 09:14 AM
Maybe :p

But i do agree with what you are saying.
Many people also head towards slaving as they see it as easier- dunno why.

Fiendish
06-21-2008, 09:15 AM
Maybe :p

But i do agree with what you are saying.
Many people also head towards slaving as they see it as easier- dunno why.

Because they don't know, methinks, but they learn

Bandit|Queen
06-21-2008, 09:43 AM
.

I'm here to tell you that they are NOT weak, are the farthest thing from weak. They are able to submit because they are strong, they're comfortable with what they are, and they know it won't be an easy road, but they do it anyway. Why? They need to, it's what they are.



I do totally agree that submiting doesn't mean you are a weak person, however alot of subs that I know are not "strong" in themselves. They have very low self asteem, self hate and often have terrible body image. Maybe it is because alot of the subs I know online are female and women tend to have these insecurities normally, but they seem to be more obvious and far deeper with the subs I know.

Could submitting be a way to get support and attention and care? I think that is part of it. I have to admit it is for me. With Dom/sub I just feel the bond is deeper than "vanilla" because the trust has to be so much more developed beacuase as a sub you can quite litterally be putting your life in the Doms hands. I think for a lot submission gives them the strength to be more confident and think more of themselves. I feel wanted, needed and cared for as a submissive. Something I don't feel I can exactly get from a nilla relationship. Its hard to explain :)


I also think for some submission is a kink not a "need" but whatever it is you are deffinatly not weak for submitting and yeah it takes guts to make yourself so vunerable to someone and give them the controll. Can be scarey sometimes but always worth it in my experiance :D

Merlin
06-21-2008, 12:58 PM
I think the failure here is that there is not one sub or one slave... There are very strong subs and also very weak subs like there are strong doms and weak doms or strong and weak people in general... everybody is different as are the reasons for being a sub. For some it is "the kick" of doing something "different", for others just fun, the next is doing it to relax, others see it as a deeper passion and some others may have a mix of reasons.
After all where i have to agree is another thing... Being a sub is not easy, and Fiendish you are right in your idea that they are doing often more than they and others are aware of.

TrekBoy008
06-21-2008, 02:05 PM
While I think it may be a generalization to say that all subs are not weak, I do have to agree that most of us, at least the ones I've talked with, are fairly strong individuals. I know the reason that I submit is at least partially because of the attention and confidence-building, as tempered_sugar has already said. I know that few things please me more than praise/compliments from my Master. It's also really nice to be the center of attention while I'm camming for him, something that I'm not very used to. As to being weak, although I'm usually very passive, if something is important enough to me or makes me feel uncomfortable, I'm not afraid to stand up for it.

TheLittleStrawberry
06-21-2008, 06:22 PM
That slaves aren't weak, is quite a generalization, I think :)
Some are strong, some are weak. I see myself as fairly weak. Metaphorically, I'm a little kitten that needs care and warmth from its owner. I'm fragile and calm, bbut sometimes extremely playful and vicious. I feel the need to have constant care and to be dominated. I feel very comfortable being and equal. I just wanna submit, and it is my purpose as I see it.
I don't see myself as a very strong person. i struggle like eveyone else. Some see me as strong because I have the ability to remain myself, and happy, even though there's been alot of quite bad things happening in my life. But I really can't stand up for myself. If it wasn't for people around me, I would have crumbled.
Even then, I see myself as weak for the sole reason that without being dominated... I am incomplete. Which means I need something. it's not just a want, but a need. Needs are much like addictions, but not necessarily bad. But you DO succumb to needs. which means, it's above you.

But all this is just the way I see it, and I'm not even sure I got my point across.

robertsubslave
06-21-2008, 11:23 PM
The most immortant thing in a Master/slave relationship is trust (respect of limits and pushing them) that bond of trust is what makes the difference between a weak and strong slave (trust = strong, no trust = weak)

Bandit|Queen
06-22-2008, 12:20 AM
(trust = strong, no trust = weak)

So wish it was that easy!

Personally submitting doesn't automatically make you weak as a person. Your personality is where the weakness lays, not in your submission. I also don't think needing help and support makes you a weak person, having someone to lean on comes in many forms can be a friend or your Dominant. As long as you still have the guts to stand up even against your Dom and say when something is wrong, you disagree, something isn't what you want or over your limits then you are not weak.

I have seen subs just agree to agree with their Doms and that to me shows weakness, not having the guts to say they disagree even over things unrelated to Dom/sub. If I stopped disagreeing I think my Master would get worried :D Submission should be part of you and make you stronger not totally take you over and make you into a door mat.

robertsubslave
06-22-2008, 01:50 AM
I'm not disagreeing with that. All i meant was that in a relationship with trust in gives you strengh, where as if you don't have trust it shows weaknesses. On a Master/slave relationship trust is respecting limits and knowing how far to take them not expecting the sub or slave to do as you want.

Bandit|Queen
06-22-2008, 03:22 AM
I know that was my rubbish atempt to make a bit of a funny :s

Dare861
06-23-2008, 05:33 PM
I'm here to dispel what seems to be a common misconception among alot of people new in the M/s and D/s lifestyle.

Alot of people think that subs and slaves are weak, which is why they submit.

I'm here to tell you that they are NOT weak, are the farthest thing from weak. They are able to submit because they are strong, they're comfortable with what they are, and they know it won't be an easy road, but they do it anyway. Why? They need to, it's what they are.

All slaves and subs have my respect, I know you're very strong people.

Now, if anyone wants to disagree, state your case :p

Yes.

-Daredude

Sorrow Becomes Her
06-23-2008, 07:34 PM
I think there is a difference in 1. a woman having low self-esteem, low self-worth since they have either had the last shreds of confidence beat out them (verbal abuse hurts just as bad as physically.. sometimes worse.. bruises, at least, will heal eventually) and 2. a woman who is naturally shy and not so dominantly outgoing, and 3. a woman who genuinely loves serving her Master, and having him being a "Dom" over her. Not all Doms are able to handle the responsiblity of having someone's submission.

I think some people have themselves confused. they think they are being a "Master" when really all they are is a pushy asshole on an inflate ego trip.

I suppose I'm one of those "strong" submissives. You WILL NOT run me over. I will NOT be the mat you kick the dirt onto. Neither will I be a punching bag (I DARE you to try that sh*t with me, f*cker). If you want my submission you will earn it. You will be able to show that you are capable of attending to my needs. If I lay myself at your feet, I trust that you will know to handle me... I will trust you, period.

I submit myself and serve Him on my own will, and it's because I WANT to please Him. I know what I want in a Master... an asshole, believe me, is not what I will be submitting to. lol (being a strict master is a different thing entirely though.. I'm so nicely complicated.)

golden lily
06-23-2008, 08:49 PM
i love how one small post can spark such intresting conversation! i'd have to agree wth all the above posts... It's not easy to submit at first, and just because someone labels themselves as a slave or sub does not necessarily make them weak. HOWEVER, as so many above have pointed out, there are those out there who use submissivness as a crutch because they ARE weak, and need to feel that someone out there can take care of them, and that all they have to do is follow orders. Both sides have equal merit in my eyes. Sorrow_Becomes_Her - i definatly agree with you. Well put, and i feel the same way. If i am submitting to someone it is because they have (in my eyes) earned it, and i trust them because of it. i may not come across as making someone work for that trust, but i do do my homework, and look deeply (or at least as far as possible) into someone and their motives, morals, personality and so much more before i even entertain ideas of submission. As for part about people having themselves confused - i think alot of people know exactly what they are (concieted assholes) and chose the label of Master because they know that there ARE weaker slaves/subs out there who are willing to follow the name and dominance without truley looking at the difference. Those are the ones who, sadley, get hurt... :(

i think i just ranted for a bit there. Sorry everyone! :P

Isabell
06-23-2008, 09:30 PM
I am so happy to see good converasation coming out of this. This is better than a few months ago when I was last here.

Yes, it takes strength to be able to yield and allow another to have a say in what you do. It also takes takes strength and responsiblity to be willing to take care of another needs. There are subs/slaves of many different levels. Do not mistake someone who is new to the lifestyle as weak. Remember it took you a while to find your footing in this lifestyle as well.

strippednakedmale
06-23-2008, 11:37 PM
I like this as well, I think you have brought up a very very good point that makes us all think. I do agree with you that in some cases subs are weak but mostly I think they are strong and more willing to take on a tough challenge then a neutral person or dominant. I have seen quite a few dominants that seem to have money on their mind much much more than being a dominant at all. I hate that! Money could be a tool but should never be involed in a true Dom/sub relationship except possibly once in a while as a punishment etc.
Just a thought, a dominant that is overly boistrous...could they be compared (in a respectful way, don't get me wrong) to a similar situation that occurs with some animals. For instance a dog that barks the loudest is usally the one that is weaker and making noise to hide it's fear for protection. Like I said, don't mean to offend any dominants, just a thought. Love this post "fiendish", very though provoking.

SubMissChievous
06-24-2008, 05:22 PM
The direction this discussion has taken is indeed quite interesting :) I meant to reply as soon as I saw this one pop up & now what I’ve read so far is completely different from the image I had in mind when I 1st read the thread lol

I'm here to dispel what seems to be a common misconception among alot of people new in the M/s and D/s lifestyle.

A lot of people think that subs and slaves are weak, which is why they submit.

Yeah when I read that part I immediately thought of a common misconception that many outside of the lifestyle have as well as some in it that a slave is basically a spineless dummy that can’t think for himself/herself & therefore choose to get themselves a “crutchmaster” in order to get someone else do the thinking & decisions for them. As if submitting to another person was for them the easy way out to avoid taking care of themselves since they are too weak…

This, in fact, is one of those common misconceptions. Just like some also think that submitting is easy because all you have to do is carry on orders when yet some others will think that dominating another one is the easy role because “Masters give orders & don’t have to do anything else”. And also that funny idea that some have that all BDSMers are pathological sex addicts who have only that in mind 24/7… :rolleyes:

Of course I agree with everyone who said previously that there are out there weak slaves & strong slaves. It’s the same for Masters too. The way I understood the question here was “does submitting makes one weak? Is submission an act of weakness?” I don’t believe that the act or need of submitting is one of weakness in itself. But yes the motives, for some, can be.

For me it’s obviously a need. What I get out of a D/s relationship is & being controled is that feeling like tempered_sugar mentioned of being wanted, needed & cared of that I won’t get in any other way possible & that control provides me an inner sense of peace that is hard to describe. Of course, like everyone else I have my strong points & weak spots. But I can’t see the need of submitting in me as one of weakness as I don’t think any needs are signs of weakness. Because otherwise everyone would be weak as we all have needs after all :)

dareboy2
06-24-2008, 06:35 PM
i do it b/cs its exicting and you never know whats coming at you next which is a big turn on

random123ny
06-25-2008, 11:48 AM
I'll skip the attributions here- you know who you are in this thread. I'll also use master/dom and slave/sub pretty casually here. We all know what we're talking about.

There are weak-personality people who believe they need to be shown how worthless they are. These are probably the very people who shouldn't be in a master/slave or dom/sub relationship -- it's too easy and dangerous to lose yourself completely and be abused.

For me, the core of these relationships is vulnerability and it's here that I have to agree with the original poster: those who can be vulnerable, mentally healthy, and submissive are indeed strong people.

They submit to break down their own barriers and inhibitions, while having their limits respected. They trust in their master to do no harm to them, but to constantly push them to be more than they are and to experience new things.

When a horizon comes up (an untried thing.. some people call them limits), both the master and the slave need to be able to discuss it, understand why it's has been unexplored by the sub, and assuming it's not something that would be harmful (physically, psychologically), help the sub move past it. If it's something that may have lasting consequences, both people need to be able to step back and examine why the sub has been asked to do it-- is it for the sake of the sub's growth or for the dom's pleasure (both valid), or, rather, is it capricious and potentially harmful to the sub (not valid, in my view).

Opening up to someone is very hard. Trusting is harder still. On the master/dom side, being the kind of person who can nurture that trust and encourage the sub to open up and reveal more than they ever thought they could... without harming the sub!... is a real challenge and responsibility.

MstDynamic
06-25-2008, 12:00 PM
Everyone is an Individual in their own rights as a person, strong, week etc.

So no matter how we try to categorise people into grouping, it comes undone, as there will be the 'gray' people who fall into neither.

As this started out subs who are strong, that is a valid point, subs I've known, who let others know, well yes must be strong willed in accepting letting others know, even those who dont understand why they wish to submitt.

Well thats my 2pence worth lol

willsmall
06-30-2008, 01:09 PM
The consensus would seem to be that .. er ..there isn't a consensus.

In general I would agree with 'random123ny' that it takes strength of character to submit yourself willingly to another, not knowing quite what you are submitting to. And, I suppose, the key word IS 'willingly'. It also shows strength of character to fight against domination when that is not your desire.

I would say that being a master is, at first sight, the easy option: just log on and watch your charge jump through hoops you've set for them. On the other hand, being a master, with the constant need to think up new tasks, and to look after your subs well-being can become a burden, while just doing what you're told could seem like the easy option.

I also have to agree with 'Sorrow Becomes Her' when she says that many 'masters' don't have the interests of their slave in mind at all. It all just underlines the fact that you really need to take your time finding the right partner.

Mistress Shell
09-09-2008, 01:07 AM
you are apparently dealing with fakes, if people are truley in the lifestyle they already know, screw everyone else.... dont worry yourself with it

Tom
09-09-2008, 11:09 AM
I think many people probably turn to feeling submissive and yearning for someone to dominate them because they have low self esteem, it probably creates a sense of security for them having a stronger person dictate to them and make decisions for them. Howevor I feel that once a submissive of this nature begins a real life experience with a dominant lady they would probably find that they are too weak for the role, and overtime either build up strength or walk away from the lifestyle. Thats an opinion on the matter, I could be way off.