Slaves And Their Rights...

[Dare861]

Hello. i am daredude861, and yes i am a slave. Hehe.
It has always been my opinion that slaves, regardless of position, should still have basic rights. After searching around i've found that much of the s/M community agrees ;)
Many (or at least some) of you, i'm sure, have no idea what these rights are/should be. That's why i'm here! So i present to you... a list of what (i think) make up the basic slave rights. Feel free to question any of them or add more. After all, the s/M community IS constantly changing, and i love to hear opinions! i personally will gladly provide reasoning to any of these rights should it be asked for.

1. A slave has the right to set limits, and to have those limits respected.

2. A slave has the right to (some) privacy, such as family/work/other real-life issues.

3. A slave has the right to ask things of his/her Mistress/Master, and to have his/her request be heard.

4. A slave has the right to ask his/her Mistress/Master to contribute an equal amount to the relationship.

5. A slave has the right to question his/her Mistress/Master's motives, so long as it is done respectfully.

6. A slave has the right to be punished with care and caution. (not recklessly)

7. A slave has the right to speak up if the relationship is not giving what he/she needs, and has the right to tell his/her Mistress/Master what is needed, so long as it is in a respectful manner.

8. A slave has the right to expect care and nurturing. (a dog that is cared for is more likely to listen. The same principle goes with slaves, in a way;))

9. A slave has the right to *respectfully* ask for his/her Mistress/Master's attention, without having to misbehave for it.

and finally.

10. A slave has the right to expect not to be abused. (The icky, emotionally-scarred-for-life abuse. Not the hit-Your-slave-with-a-whip-because-it-is-fun abuse! :sado: Use common sense!)

A slave/Master relationship, to me, is not just coming online and humiliating myself for Your pleasure (though that's fun too!). i know i personally enjoy being trained and having my limits pushed further and futher, and wouldn't be satisfied with my Dom simply coming online, handing me a list of pics to take, and logging off. That'd be boring, and the relationship wouldn't go anywhere! So keep these limits in mind, and remember, it takes two to tango ;)

-daredude

[Seedsy]

People need to be reminded of these, because most slaves dont know that they do have some form of rights.

[Collared_Slave]

Slaves should have some rights but they are still the property of their master / misstress

[nina]

Payment isn't necessarily a right. A slave should have some rights like expecting their master to respect their limits and their health. A master should never be allowed to harm (mentally, physically, and emotionally) their slave beyond repair.

[Soraslight]

Very thought provoking, hopefully this should put some of the slave/master relationships on a friendly non abusive path.

[TrekBoy008]

I don't think slaves should have rights. A real slave many years ago would have no rights at all. I think it should be the same here.
A slave does eerything for their master for nothing in return.
A servant, on the other hand, gets paid to do only certain things.

Yes, and that was wrong back then and it's wrong today. Slaves are still human beings and they still have certain rights.

[Glutgod]

Yea slaves should be respected (even if just the tinyest bit) they need their rights.

[Maverick]

the way I see it, slaves and masters both have a responsibility. Slaves obey and serve, Masters in turn care for and protect. I know some people take a more casual look at things, but as a master I see that I have responsibility to my slaves. For example, I had a slave who fantasized about being tied up and naked in public, but I would not give her orders towards that because I thought it was risky, for obvious reasons.

I see it as something like the concept of dual loyalty, for anyone who knows anything about military and/or leadership. Troops are loyal to their leader, and he in turn is loyal to them, which ensures their loyalty, and vise-versa.

so I'd think a slave has "rights" but not in the traditional sense of rights. I'd say a master has duties to the slave. I don't think a master should ask the slave to do anything dangerous, for example, or against their limits. I usually find areas in which my slaves want to be pushed, and help them push those boundries.

Just my 2 cents.

[ofthenorth]

I believe that slaves do have rights as much as a car in your garage has rights.

They have the right to all the basic needs of survival and the right to not be abused beyond that which is nessecary, say for a punishment or such.

Just as with a car (slave) if you don't take care of it it'll slowly wear down (mental and physical fatigue beyond which they are able to handle), eventually will start malfunctioning (disobedience and finding more and more limits) and if not taken care of for a while it will stop working altogether (ultimate end of a M/s relationship).

Slaves just as any piece of property do not have rights otherwise it would not be deemed slave but more of a pet or servant. I personally have a slave who out of her own choice wished to be completely objectified without any control over even the most basic functions she cannot piss or shit without permission or she risks severe punishment. Becoming a slave is a completely consensual and willing forfeiture of all rights. That's why in old times it was wrong and today it is not. As one person in this thread stated "it did not work then" but that is because it was not consensual. Slavery in our context is consensual and in accepting a Master's collar or becoming a slave you forfeit all rights. Now just as any piece of property, of which the slave essentially is, the Master has no obligation to respect the slave in any way however if the Master does then the slave just as any piece of property will function much better.

If the slave wanted rights they should offer to be a submissive in which they would be lower than the Master but not totally. Just as citizens of a government are submissive to the ruling party so should a submissive be to their Master. A slave in accepting their status gives up all rights of course due to the legality of this form of relationship in modern times the slave may end the relationship at any time as it is a consensual relationship however that is why the Master must take care of and respect the slaves human needs.

In conclusion the only right that a slave has is to begin and end the relationship however the Master should have the desire to respect their property so it won't come to that.

[cj07]

I am slave and i believe that a slave is a master property. Which means that the slave doesn't dresve rights. However a master/misstress wouldn't want there play toy damanged so they would not do anything to injure.

[Bandit|Queen]

Daredude861, just want to say you came up with some really good points and I think people should really read them and take them on bord. I'd like to see them have no rights what so ever which would include no right to food and water, people need to think out their arguments or opinons better before posting :)

I don't think slaves should have rights. A real slave many years ago would have no rights at all. I think it should be the same here.
A slave does everything for their master for nothing in return.
A servant, on the other hand, gets paid to do only certain things.

For a start like TrekBoy008 said slavery was wrong and was abolished for that reason! Also its illegal to be held against your will which is what happens when you're enslaved. To be properly enslaved if you are going by history it can't be consented to. So technically no one is a slave now. But this thread is talking about a slave in the BDSM world which is a different kettle of fish. I personally think the term slave is waved around far too much in the BDSM world and I only know one submissive who I would call a slave and she defiantly has rights which were all set out at her collaring ceremony and agreed to.

I am slave and I believe that a slave is a master property. Which means that the slave doesn't dresve rights. However a master/misstress wouldn't want there play toy damanged so they would not do anything to injure.

Humm so you are saying another human being isn't worth enough to have rights? So if my Master came to me demanding sex and I said no but he took it anyway that would be ok because I'm his property? Because in my book that is rape. If my Master refused me food and let me starve that would be ok? Because I thought that was a basic human right and saying I have no rights is as good as saying I'm not a human.

I just feel that people need to properly think about what no rights would mean and think how they would feel. The rights listed above are really good and show that the Dominant has to look after the slave, it goes both ways.

[SubMissChievous]

1. A slave has the right to set limits, and to have those limits respected.

2. A slave has the right to (some) privacy, such as family/work/other real-life issues.

3. A slave has the right to ask things of his/her Mistress/Master, and to have his/her request be heard.

4. A slave has the right to ask his/her Mistress/Master to contribute an equal amount to the relationship.

5. A slave has the right to question his/her Mistress/Master's motives, so long as it is done respectfully.

6. A slave has the right to be punished with care and caution. (not recklessly)

7. A slave has the right to speak up if the relationship is not giving what he/she needs, and has the right to tell his/her Mistress/Master what is needed, so long as it is in a respectful manner.

8. A slave has the right to expect care and nurturing. (a dog that is cared for is more likely to listen. The same principle goes with slaves, in a way;))

9. A slave has the right to *respectfully* ask for his/her Mistress/Master's attention, without having to misbehave for it.

and finally.

10. A slave has the right to expect not to be abused. (The icky, emotionally-scarred-for-life abuse. Not the hit-Your-slave-with-a-whip-because-it-is-fun abuse! :sado: Use common sense!)



I am slave and i believe that a slave is a master property. Which means that the slave doesn't dresve rights. However a master/misstress wouldn't want there play toy damanged so they would not do anything to injure.

You see when I read replies like that I can't help but think that the poster simply erad the title of the thread than thought he'd be smart to post something "extreme" just to sound more "slavy" or brave or whatever... cj07, the way you describe it sounds like a nice fantasy & yes, most fictional stories based on M/S relationships goes in this direction however, it is extremely rare in real life. And even the relationships that are just a bit close to this usually happen after a lot of time of getting each partners to know & trust each others. Oh and you say that a slave doesn't deserve rights as long as their Master/Mistress don't do anything that could cause injuries... Fine... Can I be your Mistress? I won't injure you as long as you give me all your money & shut your mouth... :rolleyes:

Now I am not going to go on explaining the meaning of slaves in modern time & BDSM versus slavery of centuries ago because it's already been very well explained in previous posts but it needs to be understood that right here we use the term slave mostly in a figurative manner. And, if you take a look at the thread Discussion: Description of Slave it appears that each who replied to it had a slightly different outlook on it. So it's only natural that each would have also their own views on rights, limits, etc. As I've already said in another thread (can't remember which one...) each individuals has different needs & motives when they get involved in a M/S relationship & what's not important to one may be capital to another. So basically, each slaves will at one point or another need some rights in order to make the relationship work, especially in the beginning so both partners allow some time for trust to build & this way, in some cases, the power exchange may grow from what it is if that's what both partners are aiming for.

[Large!Package]

Slaves don't have rights? Perhaps not, not if they are real slaves but as the people on here are not real slaves then of course they are entitled to their rights. While I don't agree with real slaves not having the right to have rights I also think it is something that we must embrace as we cannot stop. We cannot stop people from having real slaves in Africa we can't give them rights as we don't know who they are even though it is not legal. Slaves on here have the choice of doing what their master tells them if they refuse that's fine they don't have to participate in what their master is telling them. They can switch of the computer like a fire breathing dragon can set smoke to a bridge in 3 seconds. Probably not even taking that long. I myself am a slave however if I am being treated unfairly or inhumanely that's what I'll do switch the computer of it's no problem and the mods on here are then able to ban the said person(s) who have breached this.

[jakc333]

cleary chloe we need a communist dictatorship...jk but i think slaves deserve rights though non basic stuff (basic being saftey privacy and some speaking rights) should be negotiated b/w the slave and owner

[cj07]

I am slave and i believe that a slave is a master property. Which means that the slave doesn't dresve rights. However a master/misstress wouldn't want there play toy damanged so they would not do anything to injure.

When i typed this people could have realised the changes in the world since african where slaves. Also the slave will have no rights however the master is still goverened by the countrys law. For example in a court your defense could not they are my slave they don't derseve rights. This means that masters need to stick within the law.

[Merlin]

I think every one who has read some of my other posts may know how i think about the rights of a slave, and some others have already told basically all i could say about it. But i wanted to say something to this: [...]I myself am a slave however if I am being treated unfairly or inhumanely that's what I'll do switch the computer of it's no problem and the mods on here are then able to ban the said person(s) who have breached this.I really think you underestimate the power of the "binding" between a "Master" and his "Slave". The will to do what your Master wants can bring a Slave to the pint where he will do things he not only would not do normally, but can go up to a point where he will do even things that physical and psychical harm him just to please... So it is not only important to give your Slave rights but also to encourage them to use them and if necessary even to "force" them to use them. Also leaving your Master is not that easy for some Slaves, even if they think they should. For a Salve the Master can be the only thing in the world that gives them safety. This can go up to the point where they will see him as more important than things like "treated unfairly or inhumanely". That is the reason why a bad Master, that is abusing this situation (willingly or not) can cause so much Problems.
(That is one reason why i started my "Being a Dom" thread ...)

[Hampers]

I think that to declare that slaves have no rights is rather foolish. I think doing so is rushing in trying to emulate the most devoted slaves. These people have spent a long time with their respective doms, and have built up such a strong sense of trust that claiming rights is irrelevant, as these rights have been transferred (through trust) to the dom's responsibilities. Just going in off the bat and shouting that you don't want any rights is just plain silly.

[Sum]

I think that to declare that slaves have no rights is rather foolish. I think doing so is rushing in trying to emulate the most devoted slaves. These people have spent a long time with their respective doms, and have built up such a strong sense of trust that claiming rights is irrelevant, as these rights have been transferred (through trust) to the dom's responsibilities. Just going in off the bat and shouting that you don't want any rights is just plain silly.

You've touched on here what I've been meaning to say. A Master has Responsibilities, Duties and Obligations. Things that they must do to protect the slave from harm, by their hand, by the slaves own or by any external factor.

If the salve does decide to 'give up' their rights then as you say Hampers and Merlin the Master has a duty of trust, a duty of protection and a duty of care to the slave. And in this they must ensure that the rights though in name gone do in fact remain.

Sorry I'm starting to sound like a cracked record with the whole duty of care thing.

[Large!Package]

I think every one who has read some of my other posts may know how i think about the rights of a slave, and some others have already told basically all i could say about it. But i wanted to say something to this: I really think you underestimate the power of the "binding" between a "Master" and his "Slave". The will to do what your Master wants can bring a Slave to the pint where he will do things he not only would not do normally, but can go up to a point where he will do even things that physical and psychical harm him just to please... So it is not only important to give your Slave rights but also to encourage them to use them and if necessary even to "force" them to use them. Also leaving your Master is not that easy for some Slaves, even if they think they should. For a Salve the Master can be the only thing in the world that gives them safety. This can go up to the point where they will see him as more important than things like "treated unfairly or inhumanely". That is the reason why a bad Master, that is abusing this situation (willingly or not) can cause so much Problems.
(That is one reason why i started my "Being a Dom" thread ...)


I think it would be crazy to think that a slave could cause bodily harm to himself because of a master. The master has an obligation as well as the slave to make sure that human rights are protected. If the slave refuses then the master should leave said slave ie. blocking user.

[give_me_dares]

i agree, me being a master, i agree to all of them except i don't like number one to much, that is why i only let my slaves choose one and only one limit

[Bandit|Queen]

i agree to all of them except i don't like number one to much, that is why i only let my slaves choose one and only one limit

So if my limit was not killing me you could tell me if I was your slave to eat crap and I'd have to do it? Maybe I take all this too seriously but I seem to be repeating myself.

[TensionRoom101]

The point of slavery, in the consensual BDSM sense, is NOT that the slave has NO RIGHTS. However, the willing slave recognises that much of her life would be better guided (or for want of a better word, controlled) by someone who is BETTER suited to it than themselves. With that in mind it is up to the willing slave to really get to know someone, and to trust them both implicitly and explicitly with her very soul.

Although far too many submissives and players use the term slave too freely with no concept of what it really means to those who truly embrace it as a lifestyle. The poster who said "if my Master ordered me to do something I didn't want I'd just switch off the PC" clearly doesn't understand the difference between a slave and a sub. If it's just a game you play online, then sorry, but that isn't slavery.

I don't take slaves per se, because my role as a Dom is to empower the submissive, not to diminish them. I may temporarily take choices away from them while we work through a few issues, but ultimately s/he will have greater freedoms than ever before (although paradoxically no wish to exercise those freedoms).

Mike

[Dare861]

The point of slavery, in the consensual BDSM sense...
...freedoms than ever before (although paradoxically no wish to exercise those freedoms).

Mike

Very well put. + rep for you.

To add my own point further to this argument about slave rights and how to treat a slave in general..

Picture a normal household pet. A dog, for example. Your dog is loyal to you, wants to spend time with you, considers you a/the guiding force in its life, does things for you (if trained) ect.

One day, your dog comes in from playing outside, and its leg is bleeding. It got attacked by a wild animal.
Would you say, "Oh I don't care. Hurry up and fetch me that newspaper. I own you"
Or would you help the dog by taking it to the vet and showing compassion?

Now before you go saying "Oh, well that's totally different. That's a defenceless little dog. We're talking about -humans- here," listen to what some of the experts have said earlier on in this post.

Many slaves (talknig about true submissive slaves not 'dare-slaves') have an almost animalistic devotion to their Dom. I say that as fact because I'm one of them.

If you would love your dog and not bring harm to it and care for it, why wouldn't you do the same for a human being who sees you the same way? Using the excuse "but the slave is a human and knows better" doesn't mean anything. It still makes you equally as bad as the people you see on TV who get arrested for animal cruelty and neglect.

Think about that before you say slaves are -just- property.

-Daredude

[Bandit|Queen]

I think it would be crazy to think that a slave could cause bodily harm to himself because of a master. The master has an obligation as well as the slave to make sure that human rights are protected. If the slave refuses then the master should leave said slave ie. blocking user.

If a slave is in subspace or just trying to please their Master/Misstress as much as they can sometimes things go a bit too far. I'm sure even the most seasoned pro would tell you that sometimes the sub doesn't know things are hurting too much etc untill its gone too far. I have done this a couple of times with Master, it has nothing to do with him being a bad Master but everything to do with my desire to please sometimes to the point of not knowing something is too much till its gone a bit far.

Sometimes it can be hard to read sighns that something is no longer pleasurable to the slave and the Dominant does have to rely on them to some degree to say if something is verging on too much. When I didn't tell my Master this it wasn't because I was affraid of what hed say but so wrapped up in trying to please I actually didn't notice. So no the idea isn't "crazy" to me :)

[Dutcer]

I myself respect my slaves. I respect their limiteds and i wont cross them with out their approval. Ofcourse i do as i see fit and if i would want to reward them that would be up to me.

For every slave - master/mistress relationships their are different rules ofcourse. Each their own. YOur slaves respect and trust you. And for my feeling you dont break that trust.

Just my opinion ^^

[James499]

I am a switch hehe.

Any way I agree slaves do have rights but you cannot expect that a master be too nice. some slaves have so many limits and so much crap they force a master to do only thing that they absolutely want. Then whats the point in being a master if your slave is controlling the entire situation.

[Kallista]

This girl has been reading what all was saying about the rights that slaves should and shouldn't have .

The slave yes this girl dose agree should have rights to the point but also the Master/ Mistress should respect there wishes like the slave should respect the Master/ Mistress. For exsample if the slave dose something wrong yes this girl sees the punshment and the rights shouldn't be there but of the slave is obaying what her Master / Mistress tells her/him then they should have the right .

So this works both ways for the Master / Mistress and for the sub/ slave

[masterddk]

Each slave and master is different, you only have to look at everyones likes and limits.

Any rights or rules should be discussed before entering into a master/slave situation.

DDK

[Star Shadows]

See I am a slave too but this concept still baffles me because there are two sides of me arguing different cases.

Part of me feels that as a slave I have an... obligationm (may be the wrong word) to give up my rights to serve a master to the best of my ability, but then the side of my mind with common sense and self preservation comes in... what if it is dangerous, what if it will risk my RL friendships, and what if my partents catch me following orders on cam, then my fight or flight instinct kicks in. And though I know I shouldn't I will argue my case in the most respectful way possible, and try to explain why.

But, yea, I have been told I have no rights and I can accept that, however yes i am my masters 'property' and yes to use the analogy that some one on here used pencils can't argue but there are some things I WILL NOT do. And I feel that all slaves have the right to have some things they will not do and have those limits respected.

Yea... I am lost now so congratualations if you followed that, I haven't got a clue what side I am on there.

[Emma]

Ill be honest i didnt read all the replies to this i just skimmed through a few of them so i could just be repeating what others have said.

I think it depends on the slave in question and whether or not they are really a slave or a submissive. Someone mentioned something about being able to turn off their computer if things got to a point they werent comfortable with, this isnt a slave, this is a submissive. In regards to these rules some a lot of slaves do not have limits or privacy but this is what they agreed to when they entered the relationship. I dont believe this is a violation of their rights as they have chosen to reliquish these rights, no one forced them.

In regards to being killed or raped this simply should not be an issue in a 24/7 master/slave relationship. The slave wouldnt immediately give up their right to say no or to have a life seperate from the relationship. This occurs over time and with trust. The master would care and love for the slave and there would never be a fear of him/her abusing their power due to this.

Even the most dedicated slaves have rights especially regarding ones about their health and well being but these rights are extrememly basic and should not need to be exercised at the stage they would be.

[owned]

Yes of course "slaves" have rights. This isn't like a few hundred years ago with legal slave trade. No matter how serious you are in the life style its still a GAME.
I know all of the "hardcore" doms and slaves out there wont like that I called it a game but it is. There are no laws about it and its not huge in society. When the game is played those who are serious with it may come very close to the slave having no rights. But thats because those doms that are serious about it dont treat their slaves like absolute property. If even the most dedicated of slaves was made to do what REAL slaves were forced to do they would just put up their middle finger and leave.
So remember play responsibly, its just a game.

[Maha12347]

Everyone needs to realize that peoples privacy is important, and you can't just tell someone on the internet (who you've never even seen in real life) every single thing about yourself, like where you live, all your friends names, etc.

Every slave has rights that are unique, so I think if you're going to go into that relationship, you must talk about rules and rights together to make sure you're both happy as you are!

[Star Shadows]

I have been thinking about this a lot, trying to come up with a more coherant response than my last. I have also been trying to look at this from the masters point of view.

Because... think about it this way, give a slave NO rights and they begin to misbehave, and in a lot of cases with just tell them to shove it and go find someone else, but give them too many and they will become complacent and begin seeing how far they can push the rules.

So I think... well I think I think anyway, that there has to be some limits/ rights. Because though slaves, we are, like it or not still human beings and deserve at least BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS.
eg... The right to speech
The right to some privacy- of friends and location if in an online relationship. Trust or no trust you still have to be careful.
and the right to refuse if not object if a slave feels that something they are being asked to do is unrealistic or vastly above their limits.

Ok thats me done on here .

xx Shadow

[smilerdude]

For me, it depends on the type of relationship.

If you're doing an online master/slave relationship, it is a kind of faux relationship, especially if you've not met in real life. There's not the real emotional attachment of a personal and physical relationship, I find.

An only online Master may not take in account the slaves living situation and this can cause problems for the slave. I made that mistake when I was younger and learnt from it. I'm still learning, even as experienced as I am as Master.

The mistake I made was that I was too hard on the slave and thought I was the best. Boy was I wrong. So, now I always ask the potential slave/sub, to think about exactly what they want, why they are wanting it, what impact will it have on their life.

I'm up front and honest with them, because if they're not serious, they're wasting their time and mine.

So what's this got to do with slave's rights? It's what they want to get from it, that's their right and it's my job not to exceed the agreed boundaries. Personally, this is critical with an online M/S relationship.

However, if I'm with that slave in person and in real life. Yes their boundaries are to be respected because, it's the slaves who have the real power because they are submitting to the master. I will push the boundaries of a slave every now and then, if I can see a response or a desire from them to try it.

In short, (too late) a slave's rights is that they have the power in the relationship, because they can take that power away from the master if they feel their boundaries are being ignored too often.

My tuppence worth of thoughts.

[UnBr0k3nH3r0]

It depend's on the relationship that is in place. These are my generalizations D/s submissive retains all normal rights, M/s submissive has rights that are defined in their contract. O/p (Ownership and posession all rights are given to the dominant with a strong idea of caring for property (submissive) an IE (internal enslavement) relationship the submissive gives themselves to the Dominant.