Gor - Idiocy or Adaptation?

[Anjelen]

Prompted by a post of another user, i'm going to be playing the Devil's Advocate for a while...

The Chronicles of Gor, a series of novels written by a John Norman - and, in my opinion, a laughably poorly written series, at that - have spawned a subculture within the realms of BDSM that cannot be denied or brushed off.

Having read each and every Gorean novel i could find - wich were quite a few - i'll be the first to say that the books have been apparantly written by someone who spared no thought at all on the psychological underpinnings of Dominance and submission; someone who, by his writing, comes across as someone who just needed to get laid; a sexually repressed, borderline mysogenistic person. However - Mr. Norman was not, ever, writing a handbook or manual or scripture.

The books are fantasy. And as such are, howevermuch they may offend my personal philosophies on D/s - not to be scoffed away based on their author alone.

While written in a fashion that pays no respect to the psychological underpinnings, and by and large rather mysogenistic to begin with - i would simply like to say that these books have been successfully adapted into a valid lifestle by the masses that have taken to them like flies to honey.

Again - these are fantasy novels. They are stories, myths and fables of a world that never existed. I doubt Mr. Norman ever intended to write a handbook on the Gorean lifestyle - wich is a fact that often gets overlooked by those so often brushing off the lifestyle as idiocy.

Personally, i feel the Gorean lifestyle is a stiflingly ritalised and frighteningly mysogenistic one - even though, ironically enough, the mysogeny is mutual - across the books it shows that most if not all the inhabitants of the World of Gor are mysogenist; men and women both are placed below those of other genders, based on their gender alone...

While i personally find the books to be laughable at best, one cannot deny that, now that Gor has been picked up and adapted by so many people into a lifestyle, the lifestyle is as valid as any other.

Certainly, mr. Norman had no idea of D/s in a consensual context, nor of the social and psychological underpinnings of BDSM - but he was writing books, not a lifesytle.
Those Dominants and submissives who have made it a valid lifestyle, do have the understanding required for it.

Therefore, it's folly to say that every Gorean is a roleplayer without knowledge - consider, if i were to adapt Gor into my lifestyle and begin calling my submissives Kajira or Kajirus - would that nullify my existing experience, skills, and knowledge? Would I suddenly become a mysogenistic idiot who's idea of good Dominance is having their submissives prone themselves before his door to request entry? (to give a small example of Gorean ritualism).

No - no it would not. Nor would i adapt Gor without applying my existing experience, skills, and knowledge. Certainly, i would be adapting a style - but i would not attempt to live the fantasy. This is where many people who scoff at the Gorean lifestyle are simply wrong - they see Goreans as living the fantasy rather than adapting the style - and this irks me on a personal level.

So many people have adopted the style, incorporated Gor into their daily lives and live happilly doing so, not roleplaying as such, but mutually enjoying the many rules, rituals and trappings of the world as it was described by Mr. Norman - quite a few of whom were accomplished dominants and submissives long before they even found out about Gor. They had knowledge, they had experience, and they used Gor as a framework to cast these into - thus alterig and evolving the fantasy into something that can not be denied as invalid simply because it began as fantasy.

Certainly, quite a number of idiots explain their idiocy by claiming themselves Goreans - but that does not mean that all Goreans are idiots.

Just my pennyworth.

[Nixie]

This is now the 3rd time I have heard of this. I'm intrigued and I think I'm going to read this. Just to see what the fuss is all about.

Nor is it the first time people have taken a book and adapted it into their lifestyle. It happens all the time. Whether for the right or wrong reasons. Who are we to judge? It IS their life.

[Night-1991]

I've read it before, while it is a fantastic read....the lifestylers/roleplayers are what bring it down.

But each to their own. However, i do like reading it, even if it does make me slightly uncomfortable seeing how Women are treat.

Personally i prefer Drow, but it's their taste, and their life.

[pranadevil]

Originally Posted by Nixie

Nor is it the first time people have taken a book and adapted it into their lifestyle. It happens all the time. Whether for the right or wrong reasons. Who are we to judge? It IS their life.

Don't try it with Discworld though. Doesn't quite work. People give you a weird look when you whistle for your luggage to follow you.

[Nixie]

ummm wow lmfao!!!!! heehee okay well then no traveling luggage?

Edit: Honestly thought that was apart of the books since I haven't read them....
Will stay on topic...

[pranadevil]

Originally Posted by Nixie

ummm wow lmfao!!!!! heehee okay well then no traveling luggage?

But then what do I use to carry all my stuff and eat people who annoy me?

[Anjelen]

>_> ... This is going off-topic, folks... Please to be discussing Gor. I'll think of BDSM in the Discworld later.

<_< ... But one of the ex-patricians was rather ... Kinky, it seems.

[sweetsong]

Whenever someone tells me they are "Gorean", I stay away from them.

I'm stereotyping, sure. But usually all those men are narcissistic idiots with a mental disorder. At least, this has been my experience.

Also, any submissive girls that I have met who have been a part of "Gorean relationship" or whatever... have serious issues afterward. o.o

[Night-1991]

Originally Posted by sweetsong

I'm stereotyping, sure. But usually all those men are narcissistic idiots with a mental disorder. At least, this has been my experience.

Also, any submissive girls that I have met who have been a part of "Gorean relationship" or whatever... have serious issues afterward. o.o

1. I find the Men who're into Gor very mysoginistic.

2. And the Females into Gor...they're...i don't know, like robots. Just no personality.

[Anjelen]

Gor is mysogenistic. Across the entire series, towards both males and females...

And believe it or not, some submissives want to be nothing more than pretty little mindless toys.

Not my thing, but hey - Your Kink Is Not My Kink But It's O.K

[Nixie]

Originally Posted by Anjelen

And believe it or not, some submissives want to be nothing more than pretty little mindless toys.

Now I"M not reading this. For that statement alone. If that is what they believe then I just can't do it. Subs are People *Shakes Head* With Hearts, Souls, Thoughts.

Perspective.

[Night-1991]

Originally Posted by Nixie

Now I"M not reading this. For that statement alone. If that is what they believe then I just can't do it. Subs are People *Shakes Head* With Hearts, Souls, Thoughts.

To use a popular forum fad. This.

But there's also "Masters" in BDSM who think like Goreans. They arn't welcome.

[Anjelen]

Who are we to judge those submissives who wish to be toys and nothing more? Who choose to aspire to nothing once they find a Domimant that can keep and enjoy them as automatons?
I, certainly, will never understand them, though there is a certain... Strange elegance; it's simply not an elegance i will ever fully appreciate - it goes straight against all my personal philosophies.
But - isn't BDSM supposed to be based in mutual [i]respect[i/]? In acceptance? In openmindedness towards others? Just as there is no One True Way, just as we should say their way is strange rather than wrong - solong as noone is truly harmed, they enjoy themselves, Subs and Doms together. Live and let live, people!

Some people simply choose nolonger to be people. For a variety of reasons, that's a choice i can respect…

Wether or not i agree with them remains a different matter alltogether.

[sweetsong]

But Angelen, are they truly not harmed?

I think that's what people are questioning. Most of us would agree that emotional harm can be just as damaging as physical harm.

If someone is trying to escape their life by becoming a mindless toy, or for whatever their reasoning, is that really healthy?

[Anjelen]

@Sweetsong; this is why i myself am somewhat suspect of every submissive who proclaims or attempts to live the 'Mindless Automaton' way.

Granted- i've met a few who seemed genuinely happy in their life without aspiration or real responcibillity; after all, not having to worry about anything whatsoever while still receiving and giving care can be a very rewarding life.

However, the 'true' automata are far and few inbetween, and usually the 'unreal' come with a host of baggage and problems, attempting to live a life that doesn't match them usually in an escape of existing problems.

More often than not, also, these unreal automata have been lead to believe that a slave should not aspire to anything save serving their Dominant.

Are people not harmed? Certainly whenever i meet an automaton submissive i will, if possible, attempt to find out wether or not that is the life they truly chose and chose for themselves. But if they have, who am i to interfere?

However - we're digressing from topic