The generic, personality lacking BDSM partaker.

[MattOnALeash]

Hey all, just wondering a bit about your experiences of slaves/submisses and masters/mistresses. In my view, many people try to exhibit qualities which they believe they should possess, so in the case of the submissive you often get a spineless, unquestioning person with the capability to utter but a few phrases, generally 'yes mistress(/master)'. Similarly, many dominants seem to think the only way to treat another is by kicking and screaming and saying 'I want! I want! I want!' and either having the submissive do pointless and mundane tasks or masturbating(or something akin to it).

Now agreed, I'm not the most experienced out there, and I'm sure in certain relationships things do work out better. But, I've also noticed that with this lack of communication (as the submissive would often be 'forced' to be quiet) the relationship cannot grow, at least not to the extent that a fully funtional conventional couple may.

This, I think, has been one of the things that tends to make me lose interest in the whole scene. So, would it be fair to say I'm actually not interested in this particular fetish/way of life? Or have I just not found the right person? Any advice, thoughts on the subject, or potential Mistress is welcome here. Thanks for reading. =]

[SUBstantial]

WARNING! This is loooooong

If you KNOW you are a submissive, then you haven't found the right Master yet. As a submissive, your top priority should be to please your Master. But in pleasing your Master, you are actually growing yourself. The right Master will know you and will make it His/Her priority to grow you. In other words, their mission is to take who you are already and help you to become more than you already are. They are not to throw all of you out the window and make you into nothing more than a silent serving slave (unless that is what you have specified you desire -- and I can see that it clearly isn't what you want). If you don't trust your Master enough to take your personality and your desires into consideration, then I would say you definitely haven't found the right Master. Serving a Master should not feel like you are being stiffled...it should make you energized. If the relationship isn't doing this, then it isn't being done right.

Another possibility you should consider is that maybe, just maybe, you are a SWITCH and not a full time submissive. If that is the case, you may like to be in charge from time to time, giving orders from time to time. For a switch, the best option would be to find a switch for you to have a relationship with. Because if you find only a Master, then when will you have the chance to display your Dominance? If you find only a slave, then when will you have the chance to display your submissiveness? With a switch, you'd have the opportunity to switch back and forth with the same person, thus making your bond with them deeper.

Overall, I would say that you just haven't found the right person yet. I think what you describe is the mainstream idea of what a M/s relationship is supposed to be. Each relationship is different, just like every person is different. I generally have a lot more hard limits than people on here and probably to some who are inexperienced they would say that I'm not really into BDSM....but anyone who has experience and knows me at all would know that I'm CLEARLY a submissive. I'm just not into the whole DARE aspect that the majority of people on here are.

When you place an ad, be VERY descriptive. On this forum, there is a pinned topic that says how to place an ad. If you use that, you'll have a better chance of finding what you are looking for. Don't just take the first person who replies. Read their posts, watch them for a day or two. Jumping into the wrong relationship usually just ends in frustration.

Good luck.

[Stix]

Couldn't agree more...

I find that often it comes from the unthoughtful, disrespectful masters/mistresses, who think they can just demand, demand, demand...

A M/s relationship is the same as any. It has to be a two-way thing...

I find that the Masters with "love" for their subs are the ones that work out best. Just as a parent would want the best for their child, and would punish them if they stepped out of line, as should be the case with Masters/submissives.

Anyway...good post

[Anjelen]

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

WARNING! This is loooooong

If you KNOW you are a submissive, then you haven't found the right Master yet. As a submissive, your top priority should be to please your Master.

I'm sorry, but i'm going to have to dissagree here. As a person, the only true priority one has is to oneself; after all, you are the only person you'll have to face in the morning mirror every day for the rest of your life. Dominant or Submissive or Switch or for all i care peppermint-and-strawberry-swirled as you may be, you should never forget yourself. When you lose track of yourself, you become complacent and stagnant - and that' s just the beginnings of a downward spiral...

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

But in pleasing your Master, you are actually growing yourself. The right Master will know you and will make it His/Her priority to grow you. In other words, their mission is to take who you are already and help you to become more than you already are.

No. The 'mission' of a Dominant is not to make anyone grow, but to help their submissives grow, through selfimprovement and servitude. It's not the sole responcibility of a Dominant to see to it that their Submissives improve; the Submissive must make a concious effort to improve or, try as he or she might, all of the Dominant's efforts will ultimately be in vain and in more case than not, lead to mutual iration. After all, where two people are in a relationship of any kind, be it buisness, romance, or pleasure, two people must work to make this relationship mutually beneficial.

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

They are not to throw all of you out the window and make you into nothing more than a silent serving slave (unless that is what you have specified you desire -- and I can see that it clearly isn't what you want). If you don't trust your Master enough to take your personality and your desires into consideration, then I would say you definitely haven't found the right Master.

Perhaps due to my reading this awkwardly, but this implies to me that trust should be a given, and that a submissive who doesn' t fully trust their Dominant isn' t a 'good' submissive - this is pure and utter bullshit.

If you don't know me, how are you going to be able to trust me? nobody should be explicitly trusted, and certainly not for the sole reason they proclaim themselves to be Dominant. I, as a Dominant, do not inherently trust my charges - in fact quite the opposite is true, as a certain amount of paranoia keeps me sharp, keeps me focused, and keeps me from making mistakes. As time progresses, i get to know my clients to a point where i know to read and write with them, while they learn to trust me for who i am - But trust should never be a given.

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

Serving a Master should not feel like you are being stiffled...it should make you energized. If the relationship isn't doing this, then it isn't being done right.

Either that or the relationship is in that awkward initial phase of 'what do we want from each other?' that so many D/s relationships go through whilst both participants find their niche.

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

Another possibility you should consider is that maybe, just maybe, you are a SWITCH and not a full time submissive. If that is the case, you may like to be in charge from time to time, giving orders from time to time. For a switch, the best option would be to find a switch for you to have a relationship with. Because if you find only a Master, then when will you have the chance to display your Dominance? If you find only a slave, then when will you have the chance to display your submissiveness?

I personally have found the nonmonogamous approach to work in relationships as these

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

With a switch, you'd have the opportunity to switch back and forth with the same person, thus making your bond with them deeper.

Whenever you two happen to be in 'opposite' mind spaces at the same time... heh.

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

Overall, I would say that you just haven't found the right person yet. I think what you describe is the mainstream idea of what a M/s relationship is supposed to be. Each relationship is different, just like every person is different. I generally have a lot more hard limits than people on here and probably to some who are inexperienced they would say that I'm not really into BDSM....but anyone who has experience and knows me at all would know that I'm CLEARLY a submissive. I'm just not into the whole DARE aspect that the majority of people on here are.

When you place an ad, be VERY descriptive. On this forum, there is a pinned topic that says how to place an ad. If you use that, you'll have a better chance of finding what you are looking for. Don't just take the first person who replies. Read their posts, watch them for a day or two. Jumping into the wrong relationship usually just ends in frustration.

Good luck.

And now to the O.P; Communication is a core skill. Without communication, any relationship falls apart or stagnates into nonexistance - Especially in BDSM communication is hyperimportant, from communicationg one's likes and dislikes, to communicating the neccesity for more, or the neccesity to cease and decist.

Another core skill is self-knowledge - and like communication, this skill usually comes with experience.

Many people, indeed, try to exhibit qualities they see as inherent to their respective 'side' on the D/S/s spectrum. From the spineless 'yes, Master' submissive, to the 'U WIL OBEY ME NOW KNEEL U CUNT' Dumbinant - Though has it occurred to you that in more cases than not, these people tend to be people who have only 'recently' - where 'recently' is a relative term, as always - come into their BDSM-'selves' ?

Particularly on this site, the number of people 'new' to BDSM; where 'new' to me, is anywhere under five years of experience, where 'new' to anyone else may be as little as a week, matters not.

Those people who tend to act on their perceived ideal of the 'package' so to speak, rather than incorporating them within their own identity and individuality have in my experience, not yet contemplated their own identity within this 'package' - through whatever means they got in touch with BDSM, often stories, pornography or whatnot, they've often yet to discover that being a Dominant/Switch/submissive isn't -who- you are, it's -what- you are.

Those people you describe often let their sexuality define them rather than defining their sexuality themselves - usually, they'll learn, when they become more comfortable with themselves in their 'role' - or rather, when they become more comfortable with their perceived role, they'll become more comfortable with being themselves in it.

I could carry on on the subject but unfortunately... i have to skidaddoo!

[444]

Man. You're good.

You are the perfect example of me o-o or vice versa xP

So i'm facing your problems, and now I don't know if I'm dom or sub or switch, cause I don't like them mainstream ideas of them.

And I probably don't even like BDSM, well, at least, i don't like the "mundane tasks" aforementioned in your posts.

What I do like however, is a totally different point of view of BDSM which I don't even know count as BDSM or not.

Oh well, like the topic. Gonna thank you now. :P

[SubMissChievous]

Originally Posted by MattOnALeash

Hey all, just wondering a bit about your experiences of slaves/submisses and masters/mistresses. In my view, many people try to exhibit qualities which they believe they should possess, so in the case of the submissive you often get a spineless, unquestioning person with the capability to utter but a few phrases, generally 'yes mistress(/master)'. Similarly, many dominants seem to think the only way to treat another is by kicking and screaming and saying 'I want! I want! I want!' and either having the submissive do pointless and mundane tasks or masturbating(or something akin to it).

So, would it be fair to say I'm actually not interested in this particular fetish/way of life?

Not only it is fair that you don't want this type of relationship but if you need more then you're certainly right to expect more and shouldn't settle for anything less.

You know, what you're describing here is very normal and pretty much everyone go through this. It's called learning and getting to understand what you need/want and what you don't need/want. Most people need time, try different experiences and relationships, talk with different people, etc. to get a clear idea of what those needs and desires are for them.

Yes, it seems that for some, it's a general assumption that Dominants and submissives should act a certain way and very often it falls within the stereotypes you mentioned. This specific dynamic work for a few people but many others don't want that. And like it's been mentioned previously a lot of people who try to act a certain way are often trying to «learn their role», trying different hats, etc.

As far as my experience goes I can tell that this kind of «Do this, do that, yes Sir, whatever you want Sir» dynamic does not exist in my relationship. I'm not even remotely interested in being a mindless robot and I can't see what I would get out of it. That doesn't mean that our roles aren't clearly defined. Actually I find that having a closer bond with a Dominant does make roles clearer. Some people would be amazed as to how some subs are more willing and eager to please and serve when they feel closer to their Dom and keep the relationship on a more «personal» level

So to your question as to whether you haven't found the right person yet I would say most probably... Either that or there's been a lack of communication from both part.

Originally Posted by SUBstantial

When you place an ad, be VERY descriptive. On this forum, there is a pinned topic that says how to place an ad. If you use that, you'll have a better chance of finding what you are looking for. Don't just take the first person who replies. Read their posts, watch them for a day or two. Jumping into the wrong relationship usually just ends in frustration.

I agree with what you're saying about advertising but I may add a couple of things here. While being as descriptive as possible is certainly helpful advertising itself is just one tool to meet people. But more often than not, people post an ad, wait until they get some reply... By doing only that I think one makes things quite hard to find what they're looking for. It may work but you'll have to be lucky, especially for a sub male looking for a female dominant. It's like fishing in a very small pond.

I posted something similar recently in the s/M Elite section but will repeat it here to make it more visible: If you want to find the «right one» then don't limit yourself. Like I said posting ads is one tool but not the only one and, from my experience, not the most reliable as well. I've had far more success by networking, being active, making contacts and friends. Being active in discussions shows people where your interests are, your opinions, your personality, etc. It worked for me (and I even found at a time I was not looking!) and I know I'm not the only one.

I think it all is a matter of patience... both to learn what one really needs and desire as well as finding that one special person

[SUBstantial]

Originally Posted by Anjelen

I'm sorry, but i'm going to have to dissagree here. As a person, the only true priority one has is to oneself; after all, you are the only person you'll have to face in the morning mirror every day for the rest of your life. Dominant or Submissive or Switch or for all i care peppermint-and-strawberry-swirled as you may be, you should never forget yourself. When you lose track of yourself, you become complacent and stagnant - and that' s just the beginnings of a downward spiral...

I never said to forget yourself. Of course your own safety should always come first and your deepest desires should always be taken into consideration. However, in the relationship aspect, a submissive should be seeking more to satisfy the Master, not seeking more to satisfy themselves. This is where a submissive finds a good deal of their satisfaction anyway -- with pleasing the Master. And the Master should respect the needs and limits of the submissive. Part of being a submissive is submitting, putting another's desires above yours. I can explain this further, but I hope you will get the point from this. If not, feel free to ask me further what I mean.

No. The 'mission' of a Dominant is not to make anyone grow, but to help their submissives grow, through selfimprovement and servitude. It's not the sole responcibility of a Dominant to see to it that their Submissives improve; the Submissive must make a concious effort to improve or, try as he or she might, all of the Dominant's efforts will ultimately be in vain and in more case than not, lead to mutual iration. After all, where two people are in a relationship of any kind, be it buisness, romance, or pleasure, two people must work to make this relationship mutually beneficial.

You did not read my post correctly. Read through it one more time. I said that the Master will make it His/Her priority to HELP the submissive grow. I didn't say MAKE the submissive grow. It appears you transposed where I placed that word "make".

Perhaps due to my reading this awkwardly

Yes, you did read it awkwardly....that's not what I was saying at all. Read what I say. Don't imply from what I say. Don't understand? Ask me a question instead of implying what I mean.




Anyway, back to the OP, I stand by what I said in my original post. Any clarity needed from what I said has been placed in this post.

[MattOnALeash]

Thanks for the comments, ammendments to the title and the advice. I've made an advertisement on this, though I don't see it doing particularly well. I may try to make more friends involved in this sort of thing but at the moment I have books to read and warcraft to play. >.>

Thanks again, it's nice to see intelligent and friendly people on the internet, tis a true rarity.

[citruspunch]

Originally Posted by MattOnALeash

Thanks again, it's nice to see intelligent and friendly people on the internet, tis a true rarity.

It's a rarity in general, I think.

I think, in summary, the most important thing to keep in mind is to be yourself with your master. A good master wants his slave to ask questions - being a robotic drone takes the fun and purpose out a master/slave relationship. It's about mutual growth, self-awareness and respect. That can't happen if the personality is squashed out of you and you're not allowed to express your opinion. A master should be, first and foremost, nurturing - not a dictator - because as slaves, we most naturally want to please our Masters when they genuinely care for us.

[socal_dan]

It's worth remembering that kink is something you "add" to a relationship. Even if it's what the relationship is based on, there is still a relationship there. One of the important parts of bdsm (especially for lifestylers) is being able to admit straight up that they understand what they want sexually, and sexual compatibility is important -- but that's also metered by the understanding that sex is only part of a full and healthy relationship.

Ultimately for bedroom kinksters this isn't important, just something they like to mess around with. Finding somebody with the same kink tendencies takes a back seat to finding someone you're compatible with in other areas. Kink is just icing on top of that.

For lifestylers it's a little more important, even though most of us have had vanilla relationships also. There are serious complications added by any type of standing power exchange, those get in the way of both a sub expressing themselves, and the dom finding out more about their sub... and most of us aren't looking for an object of gratification (I really don't think even the TPE guys are into somebody who's basically meat for masturbation, but I'm not sure about a few of them).

It's important though that each side remember that kink is something extra to a relationship, and not that everything else is extra to kink. It's horribly annoying to find subs that don't understand this, and are spineless and without personality.

[llviia]

It's not so much that your "adding" kink to a relationship as most people try to find these types of relationships online so they don't know the person beforehand. I would agree however that there needs to be something there beyond the "kink" aspect and if you don't take time to get to know the person, the relationship is not going to work in the long term.

I've noticed that most people on here do not understand what D/s is about and as such are making it frustrating for people who are seriously looking for a relationship with someone. I see this far to often. For example, a so called "Dominant" who wants to just "degrade and humiliate" someone. Those activities are a fantasy and you cannot base an entire relationship off of that. People who are "submissive" are not sex toys (even if they think they want that). Dominance and submission are very similar in that it's a way to switch from societies "normality" and experience your true desires. If you consider yourself "Dominant", take the time to listen to what your submissive wants out of the relationship and it will be much more enjoyable. Nobody wants to be taken advantage of, even if your into the more extreme aspects of this lifestyle.