[SubMissChievous]

Originally Posted by MasterThx

Gorean slavery is about total control exchange, and that is exactly the same kink of slaves outside of Gor too, being controlled. If you have a problem with people who want to kneel in front of a Master, you should think again about your decision between a vanilla and D/s relationship.

You're right that Gorean is about TPE (Total Power Exchange) but that's not exactly the same kink as some other types of dynamics. One of the main differences is The Natural Order and more specifically the natural oder of genders:

The Gorean understands that a portion of that order is the natural dominance of the male over the natural submission of the female of his species.

Slavery, and the concept of men as Masters and women as absolute slaves, is in keeping with the order of nature... a man is not complete until a woman kneels at his feet, and that a woman is not complete until she kneels at the feet of her Master. Since fullness of our nature is paramount to our existence, then fullness of our sexual selves, our emotional selves, and of our physical selves would seem in keeping with nature’s mandates for us.

This is one of the fundamentals of the Gorean philosohy and the one I am questioning. The Natural Order, according to Gor, is that it is the role of a woman to serve a man. I don't buy that. If people chooses to live like this then it is this: a choice. Stating that males should be dominant and females submissive is just as one-dimensional and narrow-minded as saying that only heterosexuality is «natural» and that homosexuality is abnormal. I personally believe that there are many different types of orientations regardless of genders.

Originally Posted by MasterThx

If you're saying the Master and the slave are equal, I wont agree because they're totally different..

Oh... that's debatable... you're neither right or wrong here...

I am submissive by orientation and slave by choice. There are many reasons why I'm submissive but the simple fact I was born a girl isn't one of them. And since ultimately it's my decision to be a slave doesn't it make me equal? Heck... even if I'm submissive I could very well decide not to submit, doesn't it make me even more equal?

If we are talking about roles within a relationship I agree with you. However, if you mean that Dominants are inherently superior to submissives in general then I beg to differ. These are orientations, nothing more, nothing less. But even within a relationship the submissive always has the power and abillity to end the relationship so even in that context this inequality is not as great as it seems since the sub chooses to submit...

Originally Posted by Leopard

My problem with this is that you could just as easily say that there are abusive mysoginistic BDSM Masters out there. And there are. And there are abusive vanilla people, and...

Originally Posted by MasterThx

And like Leopard states, you have people in every situation that go too far with things. Be it vanilla, be it BDSM or be it Gorean.

Of course, there are, and I think that's one area that we all are aware of, understand and agree on And then again, there are great people in the vanilla world, BDSM and even Gor as well. The reason why the focus of some of the negative comments was towards Gor is because Gor's the topic of the thread

EDIT: Aww sorry Anjelen... seems like I'm now out of "... of Gor" links for you...