What it means to be a master...(debate)
What it means to be a master (debate) This is something that has always intrigued me, and on many occasions frustrated me, so I have decided to put it into a thread, for a few reasons; to teach, to learn and to rant. I have been talking to a few new ‘doms’ in the past few months, and some not so new... and there’s something which I noticed that doesn’t quite lie right with me. I was having conversations along the lines of these... Me: So, if you don’t know what s/M really is, and have no intention to learn then why are you still trying to do it? SomeDude: The power, I can make her do what I want. Me: That it? SomeDude: Yup. And... SomeDifferentDude: Yea but she can’t say no if I tell her to have sex with me! Me: And that won’t stand up in court if you try it and she piles a rape charge on you SomeDifferentDude: I could make her not go to the police, what would you know anyway you’re just a sub. And I know at least one person will have the same attitude to this as ‘SomeDifferentDude’ did, but let me ask you this, who is better to know what you are like than the people witnessing you? But getting to my point, there are a lot of new doms out there who think that a s/M relationship is just about the dominant participant having total and absolute power over their submissive, and there is nothing else to grasp about the matter... and though I am not saying that power isn’t important I think something that keeps being missed is the fact that it is not the only factor, and it certainly isn’t the most important. This kind of misconception, I believe lead to posts like this one... Quote:
So I guess what I want to reemphasize is the importance of some other vital things TRUST HONESTY RESPECT RESPONSIBILITY These I believe are the four fundamental elements of any s/M relationship, which should come before all others... Which would help doms understand than there is a lot of hard work involved it isn’t just a case of click your fingers and get what you want that second, a bit like those who post an ad and want someone with "no limits"... It’s like saying i want a relationship like those that take years to build but i want it now 'cos I’m too lazy to do my part... Trust... A dom must not only give his/her submissive the grounds to trust him/her, but they must also trust their slaves to WANT to please them, trust that they will in time grow to trust you more. What you have to remember is that this is one of the many Honesty... How can you expect someone to be honest with you when you are not honest to them also? If you lie to a child are you not teaching them that it is the right thing to do? This is the same principal at large; you have a better chance of your sub/slave being honest with you if you are honest with them. Remain open with them and they will feel more inclined to let you in by choice not just because you tell them to. Respect... Respect is two sided in all walks of life, school, work, general life you respect someone and they will show you respect in return. The same can be said for in an s/M relationship, if you respect your submissive they are more likely to respect you. To know that you acknowledge that beneath the collars and the tasks the orders and the chains they are human beings just like you just like everyone else makes them more confident in their ability to serve you and more confident in who they are. Responsibility... Being a dominant, a master, whatever you want to call it, involves a great deal of responsibility. You hold the health and wellbeing, mental, physical and social, in your hands, and for something so important it seems to be forgotten by many people looking to become a dom seem to overlook. You as a dominant have the responsibility to make sure that what your sub is doing is being done safely, and to LISTEN to your sub when they are not sure something is safe, not just force them to do it anyway. For example spending a prolonged amount of time on your back while wearing a ball gag has obvious dangers, remember to risk assess. I guess what I am saying is sometimes *some* doms get caught up, and are blinded by the power that they hold, yes it isn’t everyone but the point still needs to be made, there is more to a s/M relationship than just power, when it is really about a whole lot more. A relationship in s/M should still be like other relationships outside the bounds of BDSM full of trust, respect, love and honesty not power exploitation and bullying by fear and emotional blackmail like I have seen it evolve to in the past. A relationship made of trust all those good things is sure to be far more fulfilling enjoyable and wholesome than a one based on bullying and power based motives. [Thank you again to Chloe, who has helped me so much with this thread and many of my others, I’m not sure what I would do without you... sit rocking in a corner most likely] Feel free to add your own opinion on the matter :) |
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Other than that, the only thing I can say is bravo. A real S/M relationship shouldnt be strictly sexual. A master should always be that and a friend for his/her slave, someone they could always count with when passing tough moments and feel safe with |
This should be a sticky, great post Star Shadows! You're absolutely right with everything you said!
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Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Anjelen. Many of you already know me - and some of you have come to the conclusion that i'm a bastard for pouncing on your threads and stating my opinion. That's fine; just as i am entitled to my opinion of you, you are entitled to your opinion of me.
But - i just happen to have been playing this game for a long time now, and guess what? If i have pounded on your thread it's because i've seen something i don't like, something that may potentially put someone in trouble - and i, personally, would find it rather negligent of myself not to respond and point this out. Bringing me to the subject of responcibility - and the reason for writing this post in the first place. Mind you now, the following is all my opinion. Your mileage may vary, but i hope you'll give what i write some thought and maybe, just maybe, glean somethign from it. You, Dominants; The moment you take control of a submissive, he or she is not just your plaything to unthinkingly do what you want of them. They don't stop thinking, they don't stop feeling, and they certainly don't stop caring about their own safety. You, however... Wether you like it or not, the moment you begin to play with a submissive, they are your responcibility. What you want of them should come second to their safety, physical as well as mental. - Hurt, but harm none. - Nobody, barring nobody has no limits. Respect theirs. period. Only nonabsolute (or, soft) limits can, with time, be bent or perhaps broken. Absolute limits are absolute and should remain so. - Respect the fact that you are not the only person in their lives. Most submissves will have friends, parents, and or sibblings to think of. So making them write 'Slut' on their foreheads, while degrading, is not a good thing - marks that can be seen by those that should not see them will not have a good effect on their personal life. On the subject of respect; While you may get off at calling them names, degrading them or for all i care making them piss themselves for your pleasure, keep in mind that they are a person. Respect that person. Submitting to anyone takes the strength to overcome a whole range of ingrown behaviors, from not letting anyone walk all over them down to peeing happens on the potty and nowhere else that last one usually ingrained in them since they were TODDLERS. Submitting takes a personal strength. Respect them for their strength and respect that they are willing to show you that strength. Respect your submissive's surrender, respect your submissive. Period. Dominance and Submission do not happen without respect and equality. Odd, huh? Congratulations, you have gotten in touch with a submissive! Their ad appealed to you - or yours to them - and either way, you're talking now. This is a good time to get to know each other - and i don't mean physically. Don't ask a submissive to get naked on camera for you the first time. This only makes you seem impatient - and patience is a virtue, oh young Padawan. Talk. Discuss. Consider your likes and dislikes, and consider their likes and dislikes. If you and they are compatible, then you'll hit it off. If you two are not compatible, don't be an ass and pretend just as long as it takes for them to take their shit off and twist themselves into knots so you can get off. Not only will you come off as a complete and total jackass, you'll also ruin their willingness to play with others. A submissive who has gotten this treatment a few times too many will be jaded and just think 'fuck it, good Dominants don't exist' and give up trying. Don't be a Dumbinant. Wich reminds me - Communicate, Communicate, Communicate, Damn it! 'Typin liek this' or LK THS is going to make people think you're a dumbass. Substituting letters for words should be a jailable offence. u asshls got 2 b jokin me - just no. At least make an attempt at writing understandeable english. If you have Dyslexia, let us know - we'll go a little easier on you. A little. Communication is one of the most important skills a Dominant (or a submissive, at that) can have. Clear and concise communication will make a scene a lot easier; after all, it will make a submissive able to trust you more if they know that they can, for instance, use their safeword to stop ongoing scenes, or at the least tell you that they need you to go easier (or rougher ;) ) on them. Only the Dumbinant completely disregards what their submissive says, thinks, or does. Respect your submissive's opinions and they are more likely to respect yours. Dominance and submission - and this, again, is my opinion, yours may be different - should first and foremost be based on equality. Equal trust, equal respect, equal say and equal everything. If you -like- each other, after all, you're more likely to get along and your relationship is more likely to be mutually satisfactory. Bringing me to mutuality - No. Just because you're the Dominant and they are your submissive, does not mean that they are not entitled to pleasure, in wichever way this happens to come to them. Being a Dominant doesn't entitle you to be a mysogenistic piece of shit. You aren't any more valuable than a submissive because they happen to be submissive - you aren't 'higher' in any way, nor 'lower'. Nor are you higher or lower because you happen to be of a different gender, or race than they. People are people are people are people, you are no different than they. PERIOD, JACKASS! Also, just because they happen to serve you, doesn't mean you can dole out punishments at will. Punish when appropriate, how appropriate, and only as much as appropriate. As i've heard from someone, some Dominants for instance punish their submissives when their connection glitches, causing them to be offline for a little while. Guess what, jackass? Unless they're powering their modem with a dynamo and an exersize bike they ride on, they have no control over their connection and should not be punished when it fails, long or short term. This isn't the first time i've heard this. 'You are not allowed to cum for two weeks' is cute - if you've read too much fiction. Especially if you intend to play with your submissive in the mean time, i should point out that too many times edging over the course of days, weeks or god forbid even months can lead to neurosis. No, i'm not kidding you. Forced edging can lead to a goddamned mental disorder if it's kept up too long and done too often - and even if it doesn't it can lead to a point where the submissive can't get off easilly anymore, becomes unsure about getting off in the first place, and through frustrations loses the ability to get off, period. Punishments should not take long - no longer than neccisary for their message to sink in. The longest punishment i've seen dealt in my twenty two years in the sex buisness lasted no longer than ninety minutes and entailed the submissive standing with their nose against a wall repeating "I will not be thirty minutes late if my Master has told me three times when i need to arrive." - thirty minutes late, versus three times told, equals ninety minutes. Does that make sense to you? because it did to me, and still does. Control of another - begins with control of oneself. Don't bring anything from outside play into play. If you're pissed - leave it at the door before you start playing with your toys. Remember when you were a kid and someone pissed you off to the point where you threw your legos around the room and you broke the lamp, and then your mom got pissed and smacked you one? Control your impulses. If you can't keep control of yourself, learn the trick of counting to ten before you say something. There is lots, and lots more where this came from - so stay tuned for further episodes. Right now however i feel i've been rambling and perhaps somewhat less than coherent - so i'll leave it at this and let y'all talk for a while! |
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The only thing to add for me is... You were talking to two mentally ill children in chat. That is all. |
*applauds*
You already know my thoughts. (: I found, as a person who makes their living working with children, that submission is best earned with sweetness. |
... Any dom that would rape a sub, then tell them not to tell police should be shot. And also, I love Anjelen's post. So much.
:3 Thank you both Star and Anjelen. And in my thoughts, this is why I'm not the biggest fan of being in a D/s M/s relationship with someone who is not my boyfriend/girlfriend, but this is just me... You don't have that spark of 'caring' for one another, though I'm sure most M/s relationships do.. Oh, fuck. I'll make a looong rant on this later. I'm bad enough already on the verge of passing out and puking, so I can't even think. :S |
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A little more on topic... It's really great to see how much you've come along and how you're now helping so many people in turn, Shadow. You're doing a great thing here :) |
@Anjelen my eyes actually hurt after reading you post but it has some interesting points in there. Worth the sore eyes. anyhoo.. Quote:
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Under one of my doms I had been told expressedly Not to touch by 'area' under any circumastances without his permission, I forgot and did, but still told the truth when asked as to how I did. I was told scratch a hairbrush across my pussy, through my panties, reasonably hard for about a minute. It wasn't a pleasant thing to do but the connection helped me link it back to the action so that I would not do it again. Make it short, linked together and proportional, only punishing the things that deserve it. Quote:
Compassion is greatly important and after speaking to so many people and from my own experiences I can say it is the glue in a relationship. If you don't Love each other in one way or another, as a lover, a sibling a friend or just a support system the relationship will not stand the test of time and trouble And now I am ran out of things to say, so I am goin to find a different post to write on, until I think of more. And thank you leo, youre like a brother and mentor to me so to hear you singing my praises is amazing thing :) But I wouldnt be a shadow on who I am now without you. ...and finally again, someone last night asked me if I thouhgt he should read the threads in the s/M forums like this one, and the ones held in threads of note. So I put to you the same response as I told him. "If you think that you are the perfect dominant then read the thread because there is a strong chance that you're not. If you know that you are flawed then read them to strive for perfection because you are never at a point in your life to stop learning, there will always be something new to learn, and the minute you stop shall be the minute the world as we know it stops, then you can learn about that." |
I figured I'd come in and drop a cherry bomb on this post.
Here goes: Quote:
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By the by, padawan? PADAWAN?! Star Wars. -swoons- So sexy. >_< Quote:
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<3 Cherry |
http://www.getdare.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=43379
These are my thoughts on the matter. I figured I should just link to it rather than copy and paste it in this thread, although if it's rude to link to another thread inside of one thread, I don't know the customs here, I'd be more than willing to paste it in here. I've read just about every post here and I agree with just about everything said. It's just amazing to have a community, or at least the vast majority of this community, that understands what it's all really about. Upstart Dom's, which is what I classify the kind of Dom's that StarShadow was talking with, are a true irritation. They smear the idea of M/s and make it into something it's not. They also have a tendency to ruin a perfectly good, budding slave and scar them for life. I'd like to have them sub for one another and see how that goes. |
I live in the world of online d/s and i feel this is the arena where a dom gets tested the most. Firstly you have the inital period where you gain the subs trust. The trouble with cyber space is obviously the sub can just disapear if he or she wants, so the dom has to balence what he wants with what his sub wants, as to not bore her. However after a while u build up a realtionship, and from experience as a sub you feel a bond to your master, you dont want to disapoint them or let them down, for me this is the point where the master really is a master, there comes a point where the master can controll the sub to do anything, for me this is what i long for in a realationship.
Of course this can happen short term by using blackmail or similar techinques, but this leads to a different realtionship, with more aggresive master which i prefer but I question if this is really a proper d/s relationship? |
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Also I would like to add I totally second Leo's post. Quote:
That is why I think GetDare as a site can do a bit more to prevent this. I'm not just saying something should happen, I want to make posts in that area too. Quote:
I feel that the statement that the sub can disappear completely negates your statement that you want to gain their trust. |
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To me a d/s relationship means that there is a visible balance of power; the dominant being in charge, the submissive ... submitting. (That doesn't make one better than the other; I see them as equal.) The only "should be"s in the relationship are that it is safe and consensual. |
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Blackmail, therefore is an iffy subject to me; who's to say the blackmail will stop once the submissive decides they nolonger want that particular form of dynamic? I would therefore recommend only entering a blackmail-based dynamic with someone whom you know you can fully and completely trust. The visible balance of power in the D/s relationship is usually present by simple cues; ranging from the submissive kneeling aside their Dominant's seat or wearing their collar and leash, referring to their Dominant as "Master", "Sir" or, in my arrogant opinion towards the somewhat rediculous, "Sire" or "God". (This goes for "Mistress" "Ma'am" "Queen" and "Goddess", too. ) Or, such subtleties as the submissive ensuring their Dominant lacks nothing, from regular, 'Can i get you anything?' to nudging that ashtray that's a little far away, a touch closer so that the Dominant has an easier reach. (This can get hilareous in club settings where multiple Dominants share a (round) table and a single ashtray. It's like watching a table hockey game... ;) ) Safe, Sane and Consensual (or Risk Aware Consensual Kink, if that's your thing) is a no-brainer. Any Dominant who doesn't immediately recognise "SS&C" or "RACK" should, in my opinion, raise a red flag in their peers. |
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